skyclownUK 0 #1 October 31, 2003 I am genuinely interested in hearing from people who have had a large number of cutaways, particularly those with low jump numbers. At the DZ earlier this month, we were discussing why it is that some people go for 3000 jumps before their first chop, and others have had several before their 500th jump. I`d like to look at this from an educational point of view - so information such as experience level, canopy, container, deployment mechanism and packing technique would be very useful, as well as what the nature of the malfunctions were. Cheers Ollie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #2 October 31, 2003 Should this be posted in the CReW forum? At one point 6% of my jumps ended in reserve rides. My reserve ride was my fault - the spring-loaded PC fell over the tail and came back in under the lines and a combination of factors (especially including allowing my controllability check procedure/rules get fuzzy in memory) led me to chop it even though I didn't really need to. A dozen jumps later my PC came under the nose and reinflated, giving me a right turn. I didn't chop that one, I just gave my left arm a toggle workout. Flaring was fun. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #3 October 31, 2003 Got 4 reserves in 440 jumps. First: FXC fire (student gear, had about 50 jumps, 230 main, 253R) with 2 out at 2000 ft, ended in downplane at 1000 ft, chopped it. Deployment system was ripcord (BOC). FXC may have need to be reset or maybe I was too low (well I was, anyway, esp for an FXC). Second: Spinning Safire 135, line got caught on slider-collapse-tab. Deployment BOC, container Atom 00. Main was packed by me and 2 others (had some probs getting it bagged). Reserve repack was 2 weeks old Icarus confirmed they had heard of this problem before(too long slider tabs), and had redesigned their sliders. Thanx a lot guys Had mine fixed immediately after... Third: intentional. Fourth: lineover on a borrowed Sabre 135 (the rest was my own gear), was packed by packer. Lineover wasn't the steering line (haven't figured out which line it was but it's on video). 4 weeks after the repack/intentional.... That repack was about 6 weeks ago now Nice average, 1 in 100, and none of them happened doing CReW ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #4 October 31, 2003 I had three before my 100th jump. 1 was from a tension knot, 2 from AAD activation caused by low pulls. The last two convinced me that I needed to make changes and I jumped a AOD on my main for a while until I had eye surgery to fix my vision problem. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #5 November 1, 2003 19 jumps. Two chops. see the incidents forum for details under "double-double out malfunction, a record" Its near the top Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larry 0 #6 November 1, 2003 49 jumps, 1 reserve ride (high ratio for so few jumps, I guess) Slammer opening blew out center cell and broke lines.“Now click your heels together 3 times so you can return to Kansas to live in poverty with your teetotaling, dirt farming aunt and uncle!” paraphrased Prof. Farnsworth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #7 November 1, 2003 203 jumps now. 2 reserve rides. First reserve ride was jump # 36 - line twists and I was at my decision altitude so I cut away. If I had had more experience at the time, I probably could have fixed it, but being so new to the sport, I wasn't taking a chance. Second reserve ride was jump # 91 - severe line twists to where my head was pinned down looking at my feet. Decision altitude came - hard cut-a-way - but ended up with a beautiful reserve.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #8 November 2, 2003 I've used a reserve about 9 times...maybe 10, in 850 jumps. I have used a rserve as my main, and left my main packed on my back. In one, I blew the reserve to pieces....1 millions holes of various sizes, and I cutaway and used my main. Another reserve was used because I was lower than the 300 ft I needed to open my main. My first cutaway from a bad main was about my 75th jump or so. I can always look this stuff up in my logboook if it means anything to anyone. Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #9 November 3, 2003 QuoteI've used a reserve about 9 times...maybe 10, in 850 jumps. I have used a rserve as my main, and left my main packed on my back. In one, I blew the reserve to pieces....1 millions holes of various sizes, and I cutaway and used my main. Another reserve was used because I was lower than the 300 ft I needed to open my main. My first cutaway from a bad main was about my 75th jump or so. I can always look this stuff up in my logboook if it means anything to anyone. Bill Cole D-41 hi Bill i was just curious about something - why did you use the reserve and not the main, on the jump where you said you cutaway the reserve and then went to main? Thanks "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #10 November 3, 2003 I was practicing for the 1st chuteless jump, and was wearing only a Para Commander on my back. After receiving the reserve, I decided to see how it would fly, being brand new and steerable. It wouldnt take the extra weight of my main and it just blew apart. I did a similar jump once before to try a new steerable reserve witjh my own modification, and it was a cheap 24 ft military surplus reserve. It took the extra weight that time, but I had a hard landing. The mod wasnt all that great either, but that was in the early days when I liked expirimenting with new ideas. After that reserve blew up, I bought a cheapo 28ft reserve to use when going chuteless...I used it on both jumps, and it worked well. BILL COLE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #11 November 3, 2003 3979 Jumps, 18 chops. 8 from 750 Tandems. I do not own, maintain or pack the gear 7 from Wraps and entanglements. I have about 700 CF dives, mostly competition rotation dives. 3 from highly loaded elipticals. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirage63 0 #12 November 3, 2003 1,500 JUMPS Five cut aways. Two line twist, Two line overs, One canopy blew up. Four of the five I didn't pack. Now I pack or I'm real careful about who packs for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #13 November 3, 2003 I have 9 cutaways in 1265 jumps and have never had a main deployment malfunction. All my cutaways were in the aftermath of CRW entanglements and/or wraps. I jump a tailpocketed (no bag) PD Lightning 143/Tempo 170/Infinity. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #14 November 3, 2003 1250 jumps. 7 reserve rides. None for the last 500 jumps or so 3 honest malfunctions; 2 on rounds, one on a square. 1 couldn't-pull on a pull-out 3 from experimenting with homebuilt or jerry-rigged hand-deploy pilot chutes Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willhill 0 #15 November 3, 2003 You say one of your chops was intentional. I've considered doing this just to have the experience. Yet the experience of flying the reserve for fun must surely be different, on many levels, than the necessity of doing it after a genuine malfunction. Is it worth it to try it? What do you think? Frankly, sometimes I'm tempted.Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites larry 0 #16 November 4, 2003 QuoteIs it worth it to try it? What do you think? This is in no way a criticism, but I think when people do the intentional cutaway for a tandem rating they use a system with 3 chutes so there is still a reserve. My apologies if you know this already. By the way I do have 1 cutaway and feel much better about being able to react to emergencies after having done it. (was not intentional)“Now click your heels together 3 times so you can return to Kansas to live in poverty with your teetotaling, dirt farming aunt and uncle!” paraphrased Prof. Farnsworth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skr 1 #17 November 4, 2003 > You say one of your chops was intentional. >Is it worth it to try it? If they ever got around to electing me Emperor of the Reality I would get a couple gear manufacturers to make some intentional cutaway rigs of various sizes, and each drop zone would have a few, and I'd make it customary at around 100 jumps or so for people to do a couple. It takes the mystery out of it, and is one less new thing to cope with if you ever need to do it for real. >Frankly, sometimes I'm tempted. Remember that reserves are just parachutes, and sometimes they don't work, so it's probably better to use a well designed cutaway rig with three chutes. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlanEllis 0 #18 November 4, 2003 2700+ Jumps and 8 reserve rides over 22 years . 2 CRW wraps (round reserves) 2 Malfunctioned Mains (Line twist and tension knot) 3 Tandems (2 Drogue over nose and 1 broken lines) 1 Tandem AAD misfire (Sentinal) at 1000' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #19 November 4, 2003 QuoteYou say one of your chops was intentional. I've considered doing this just to have the experience. Yet the experience of flying the reserve for fun must surely be different, on many levels, than the necessity of doing it after a genuine malfunction. Is it worth it to try it? What do you think? Frankly, sometimes I'm tempted.Quote See this thread:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=616295#616295 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willhill 0 #20 November 4, 2003 Thanks, Larry, I didn't know about the system you describe. I probably won't get a chance to try it since I'm not interested in becoming a tandem instructor. Anyway, in some sense I envy you for having had that one cutaway. Good luck w/ everything Blue skies.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willhill 0 #21 November 4, 2003 I agree with you. Thanks for the input. Take care.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #22 November 4, 2003 1300+ no reserve rides. 1. Anal retentive packing 2. Thoroughly inspect my gear after the last jump of the day and/or before the next boogie. 3. Tip packer at boogies at the beginning of the day while explaining my packing preferences and explain that the other half of the tip is at the end of the day for no reserve rides. 4. Use same packer all day. 5. 30 day maintenance on rig. 6. Replace or have rigger repair worn or damaged stuff prior to jumping. 7. Don't exceed riser, suspension line or canopy manufacturers life-span recommendations. There's two kinds of skydivers; them what's had reserve rides and them what's going to have reserve rides. It's not about not having reserve rides, its about minimizing the opportunity for a reserve ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlanEllis 0 #23 November 4, 2003 Bigun... Is GG doing your rigging work? alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #24 November 4, 2003 Yep, GG does my rigging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #25 November 4, 2003 Quote3 honest malfunctions; 2 on rounds, one on a square. Wendy, in your experience, do you feel rounds were more susceptible to malfunctions that required a cutaway? I know that's a hard question to answer because of all the factors - obviously bad packing, highly-elliptical squares, et al are all factors. I'm just curious if a "typical" round (if there is such a thing) is more prone to a mal than a "typical square" (if there is such a thing). 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larry 0 #16 November 4, 2003 QuoteIs it worth it to try it? What do you think? This is in no way a criticism, but I think when people do the intentional cutaway for a tandem rating they use a system with 3 chutes so there is still a reserve. My apologies if you know this already. By the way I do have 1 cutaway and feel much better about being able to react to emergencies after having done it. (was not intentional)“Now click your heels together 3 times so you can return to Kansas to live in poverty with your teetotaling, dirt farming aunt and uncle!” paraphrased Prof. Farnsworth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #17 November 4, 2003 > You say one of your chops was intentional. >Is it worth it to try it? If they ever got around to electing me Emperor of the Reality I would get a couple gear manufacturers to make some intentional cutaway rigs of various sizes, and each drop zone would have a few, and I'd make it customary at around 100 jumps or so for people to do a couple. It takes the mystery out of it, and is one less new thing to cope with if you ever need to do it for real. >Frankly, sometimes I'm tempted. Remember that reserves are just parachutes, and sometimes they don't work, so it's probably better to use a well designed cutaway rig with three chutes. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanEllis 0 #18 November 4, 2003 2700+ Jumps and 8 reserve rides over 22 years . 2 CRW wraps (round reserves) 2 Malfunctioned Mains (Line twist and tension knot) 3 Tandems (2 Drogue over nose and 1 broken lines) 1 Tandem AAD misfire (Sentinal) at 1000' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #19 November 4, 2003 QuoteYou say one of your chops was intentional. I've considered doing this just to have the experience. Yet the experience of flying the reserve for fun must surely be different, on many levels, than the necessity of doing it after a genuine malfunction. Is it worth it to try it? What do you think? Frankly, sometimes I'm tempted.Quote See this thread:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=616295#616295 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willhill 0 #20 November 4, 2003 Thanks, Larry, I didn't know about the system you describe. I probably won't get a chance to try it since I'm not interested in becoming a tandem instructor. Anyway, in some sense I envy you for having had that one cutaway. Good luck w/ everything Blue skies.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willhill 0 #21 November 4, 2003 I agree with you. Thanks for the input. Take care.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #22 November 4, 2003 1300+ no reserve rides. 1. Anal retentive packing 2. Thoroughly inspect my gear after the last jump of the day and/or before the next boogie. 3. Tip packer at boogies at the beginning of the day while explaining my packing preferences and explain that the other half of the tip is at the end of the day for no reserve rides. 4. Use same packer all day. 5. 30 day maintenance on rig. 6. Replace or have rigger repair worn or damaged stuff prior to jumping. 7. Don't exceed riser, suspension line or canopy manufacturers life-span recommendations. There's two kinds of skydivers; them what's had reserve rides and them what's going to have reserve rides. It's not about not having reserve rides, its about minimizing the opportunity for a reserve ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlanEllis 0 #23 November 4, 2003 Bigun... Is GG doing your rigging work? alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #24 November 4, 2003 Yep, GG does my rigging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #25 November 4, 2003 Quote3 honest malfunctions; 2 on rounds, one on a square. Wendy, in your experience, do you feel rounds were more susceptible to malfunctions that required a cutaway? I know that's a hard question to answer because of all the factors - obviously bad packing, highly-elliptical squares, et al are all factors. I'm just curious if a "typical" round (if there is such a thing) is more prone to a mal than a "typical square" (if there is such a thing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
willhill 0 #20 November 4, 2003 Thanks, Larry, I didn't know about the system you describe. I probably won't get a chance to try it since I'm not interested in becoming a tandem instructor. Anyway, in some sense I envy you for having had that one cutaway. Good luck w/ everything Blue skies.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willhill 0 #21 November 4, 2003 I agree with you. Thanks for the input. Take care.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #22 November 4, 2003 1300+ no reserve rides. 1. Anal retentive packing 2. Thoroughly inspect my gear after the last jump of the day and/or before the next boogie. 3. Tip packer at boogies at the beginning of the day while explaining my packing preferences and explain that the other half of the tip is at the end of the day for no reserve rides. 4. Use same packer all day. 5. 30 day maintenance on rig. 6. Replace or have rigger repair worn or damaged stuff prior to jumping. 7. Don't exceed riser, suspension line or canopy manufacturers life-span recommendations. There's two kinds of skydivers; them what's had reserve rides and them what's going to have reserve rides. It's not about not having reserve rides, its about minimizing the opportunity for a reserve ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanEllis 0 #23 November 4, 2003 Bigun... Is GG doing your rigging work? alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #24 November 4, 2003 Yep, GG does my rigging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #25 November 4, 2003 Quote3 honest malfunctions; 2 on rounds, one on a square. Wendy, in your experience, do you feel rounds were more susceptible to malfunctions that required a cutaway? I know that's a hard question to answer because of all the factors - obviously bad packing, highly-elliptical squares, et al are all factors. I'm just curious if a "typical" round (if there is such a thing) is more prone to a mal than a "typical square" (if there is such a thing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
