Oh, the nerve of some skydivers!!

[dreamsville 0]

This was a funny story told to me last weekend by a buddy who was a witness.

The plane is on its way to altitude, and a solo jumper who I think may have know these other 2 jumpers asked if he could jump with them. They said "No, we have a 2 way.".

At exit time, the two way lines up in the door and prepares for a head-down flower exit. The guy who had been refused when he asked of he could jump with them inserts himself in their exit, grabbing the flower grip to make a 3 way. He then says "I didn't drive all this way just to do a bunch of F----ing solos!". He gives the count, and out they go. I guess there wasn't much time to do much about it, or at least they all went anyway. I don't know how the jump itself went.

Edited to add: does anyone else know of other outrageous stories?
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[CrazyIvan 0]

I have one: This lady I know, she's a newbie and when she's about to exit, she has the nerve to tell everyone on the load HOW MUCH TIME they have to give her, she goes like: After I jump YOU wait 6 or 8 secs ok?, another one from the same person, she manifests and THEN starts packing, she takes FOREVER to pack, so when her load is in a 5 min call she goes back to manifest and DEMANDS to push back the call UNTIL SHE'S FINISH PACKING, I'm serious, no joke.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[sssbc99 0]

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I have one: This lady I know, she's a newbie and when she's about to exit, she has the nerve to tell everyone on the load HOW MUCH TIME they have to give her, she goes like: After I jump YOU wait 6 or 8 secs ok?, another one from the same person, she manifests and THEN starts packing, she takes FOREVER to pack, so when her load is in a 5 min call she goes back to manifest and DEMANDS to push back the call UNTIL SHE'S FINISH PACKING, I'm serious, no joke.

Yeah I hear that one all the time. They always say the same time amount too, regardless of the uppers, and they dont say anything about the 45 degree angle which is way more important than the count. I have seen so many students count to eight really fast without looking out and then just jump. Anyways I have two:

1. First off, I think that tracking dives should go out after RW and freefly groups. So this group of guys that think they are hot shit get in the plane and say "We are tracking and we are out first". How do you argue when you will only get a bunch of shit for it.

2. One of the coaches at the DZ is doing a coach jump with a student that only has like 15 jumps and is pulling at like 4000. He gets in after the freefly groups and says "We are doing a two way RW so we are out before the freefliers. " What the fuck? I guess you cant argue sometimes.

[jlmiracle 7]

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Yeah I hear that one all the time. They always say the same time amount too, regardless of the uppers, and they dont say anything about the 45 degree angle which is way more important than the count.

You are kidding about the 45 degree angle being more important, right?

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[sssbc99 0]

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Yeah I hear that one all the time. They always say the same time amount too, regardless of the uppers, and they dont say anything about the 45 degree angle which is way more important than the count.

You are kidding about the 45 degree angle being more important, right?

Judy

How do you figure?

[dragon2 2]

Hmmm something like that....

When I was learning how to sit, a freefly guy I didn't know asked if I'd do a 2-way. No, because I can't even stay in a sit the whole jump.

Turns out, he followed me out the door anyway His argument: I never came NEAR you!
But I still noticed him in freefall He should respect 'no'.

A while after that, I did a 2-way sit jump with another guy. Same jumper asks if he could come along. We both say no (I still didn't have much freefly experience and my jumping buddy hadn't seen my sit yet). Guess what.... HE FOLLOWED US

I was so busy with my 2-way I only noticed him when I was tracking away. My buddy had noticed him the whole jump and was furious.

NO you're not jumping with us means NO you CAN'T follow us EITHER, IMO!!!

Found out later the guy is an ok/good freeflier, but I still avoid him. He really really didn't get it...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[quade 4]

After banging his head agsint the wall until it's bloody, quade stumbles back over to the computer and says, "because the 45 degree 'rule of thumb' is meaningless. It has no validity at all."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Remster 30]

Have a read at the resource section and you should undertsand why the 45 deg rule is not adequate.

http://www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/

Remster

[Rdy2skydive 0]

OH IVAN - I KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Don't forget about the time on the plane when she leaned over and asked me how much my custom jumpsuit cost. I told her $325.00. She said, "That's expensive. That's as much as your new rig, isn't it?"

[CrazyIvan 0]

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OH IVAN - I KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!!

Don't forget about the time on the plane when she leaned over and asked me how much my custom jumpsuit cost. I told her $325.00. She said, "That's expensive. That's as much as your new rig, isn't it?"

BUSTED!!!

Hey, you have some good ones too, c'mon share them with the brothers and sisters.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[billvon 2,989]

>they dont say anything about the 45 degree angle which is way
>more important than the count.

This DOES NOT WORK. It's like sticking your hand out the door of the plane to figure out what the upper winds are doing. "Hmm, 100 knots right down jump run again . . ."


>2. One of the coaches at the DZ is doing a coach jump with a student
> that only has like 15 jumps and is pulling at like 4000. He gets in
> after the freefly groups and says "We are doing a two way RW so we
> are out before the freefliers. "

Makes sense. RW out first is pretty common at most DZ's. It allows more exit separation between the last RW group (presumably this student) and the first freeflyers.

[billvon 2,989]

>has the nerve to tell everyone on the load HOW MUCH TIME they
>have to give her, she goes like: After I jump YOU wait 6 or 8 secs ok?

Hmm. I do that, especially at places like Rantoul where I don't know many of the people in the plane. I've opened up _in_ other people's breakoffs before because they didn't leave enough time between groups.

[sssbc99 0]

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>2. One of the coaches at the DZ is doing a coach jump with a student
> that only has like 15 jumps and is pulling at like 4000. He gets in
> after the freefly groups and says "We are doing a two way RW so we
> are out before the freefliers. "

Makes sense. RW out first is pretty common at most DZ's. It allows more exit separation between the last RW group (presumably this student) and the first freeflyers.

Not if the student is pulling at 4000 ft.

[nightjumps 1]

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Makes sense. RW out first is pretty common at most DZ's. It allows more exit separation between the last RW group (presumably this student) and the first freeflyers.

I can see both sides of this, Students pulling high usually get out after FF'ers but before Tandems. But even pulling at 4,000 there should have been enough separation not to affect the FF'ers.

Might have just been a judgement call on the Instructors part.

[Remster 30]

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Not if the student is pulling at 4000 ft.

Yes, even if they pull at 4000.

Go to that web site I link, and play with the simulations there for a while.

Remster

[Remster 30]

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Students pulling high usually get out after FF'ers but before Tandems

But not as a 2 way.... The instructors would not pull at 4K, and putting them after the FFers would pretty much have the same result on H seperation.

Remster

[billvon 2,989]

>Not if the student is pulling at 4000 ft.

EVEN if the student is pulling at 4000 feet. You MUST guarantee horizontal separation; people (students especially, and students with spectres even more so) have a tendency to not be that accurate when it comes to final opening altitude.

[sssbc99 0]

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After banging his head agsint the wall until it's bloody, quade stumbles back over to the computer and says, "because the 45 degree 'rule of thumb' is meaningless. It has no validity at all."

First off,why dont you explain yourself instead of trying to be funny (or whatever that was). Second, what do you do?

In reply to the Kallend article:

I read the section regarding this and I do agree with what he says, but his solution is to do a calculation that very few people will do, based on ground speed, uppers and normal spacing. The way I was taught was to take 8 seconds and this was given as the rule. My point was that instead of teaching students to count a certain number of seconds, teach them to look at the group ahead of them. Also, some peoples 8 seconds is different from others. You could count this 8 seconds and look out and see the group right below you, then you shouldnt jump. I guess with students it is not a big problem because they arent likely to catch up to a freeflier,unless he she is way out of control.

Basically, I want to say that seeing is more important than counting, in my opinion.Of course I know that I am not very experienced but like I said, it is an opinion. And yes "45 degrees" is not the best judgement.

I want to hear what all of you have to say about your methods.

[pilotdave 0]

I don't really care if freeflyers freefall past my opening canopy... as long as they're 1000 feet away. Exit order is all about horizontal separation at pull time. It would be different if the student was opening much higher, but a 4000 foot opening after a minute of freefall will give plenty of horizontal separation if the freeflyers wait an appropriate (not excessive) amount of time before exiting.

I have no problem with anyone telling me how long to give them before exiting...as long as they know what they're talking about.

Dave

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Freefliers (at least those not sliding horizontally across the sky) really do need to follow belly fliers even if the belly flier is pulling at 4000 feet. Belly fliers will drift more horizontally (because they are presenting their bodies to the uppers for a longer period of time) and if a freeflier was to exit before a belly flier, the belly flier could end up on top of a freeflier. Vertically this wouldn't be such a big deal as the freeflier will be way below the belly flier, but if the belly flier has a malfunction and has to cut away, guess who's falling in on who while under canopy.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kallend 2,026]

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After banging his head agsint the wall until it's bloody, quade stumbles back over to the computer and says, "because the 45 degree 'rule of thumb' is meaningless. It has no validity at all."

First off,why dont you explain yourself instead of trying to be funny (or whatever that was). Second, what do you do?

Maybe it's because it's the zillionth time this year that someone proposed reliance on the 45 degree rule, only to be told that it doesn't work.

Maybe it should be in a FAQ.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhreeZone 20]

Do a search for Horizonatal seperation, freefall drift and exit seperation. Those three topics will give you about 2 weeks worth of reading.

RW'ers get pushed more in freefall then the Freefliers do. Even a 2 way RW with a puller at 4000 will be pushed more then a freefly group is pushed.

It usually is freefliers that complain about being last out because of bad spots... but you know what, its done that way for safety, not to screw people over. I usedto bitch all the time about off landings, took care of the issue by getting a birdman suit. Now if I land off its since the spot was SO bad no one else was going to make it either.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[CrazyIvan 0]

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I have no problem with anyone telling me how long to give them before exiting...as long as they know what they're talking about.

Exactly, but that's not the case, capische?

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[SunWukong 0]

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Maybe it's because it's the zillionth time this year that someone proposed reliance on the 45 degree rule, only to be told that it doesn't work.

Maybe it should be in a FAQ.

Maybe it should be in the SIM.

[nightjumps 1]

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Students pulling high usually get out after FF'ers but before Tandems

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But not as a 2 way.... The instructors would not pull at 4K, and putting them after the FFers would pretty much have the same result on H seperation.

First, like I said... the Instructor probably made a judgement call (although we don't/won't know why). Second, AFF levels 4-7 are 2-ways and they get out after FF'ers.

I wonder if maybe the Instructor was actually teaching the student on the Coach dive about horizontal separation (15th jump) and that s/he might have been placing the student in the proper exit order. Its just a thought.