helldog 0 #1 October 21, 2003 After comming off student status I purchased a new set of gear with a 7 Cell Main (sharpchuter 245, f-111). This will be my transition gear ($35/ jump was limiting the amout of jumping I was doing.) to get my experience level up. I have 37 jumps now 7 on the new canopy and could use some extra pointers on how to best land this canopy. Its so different from the pd 300 9 cell. thanks in advance for any help Blue Skies Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #2 October 21, 2003 not to sound rude, but have you talked with your AFF instructors and coaches yet? They'd be the best ones to help because they see what you do on landing. Maybe ask someone to catch a couple of your landings on video so you too can see what to work on. When i was having difficulty at first getting comfortable with my canopy a couple of experienced canopy pilots helped point me in the right direction based on what they were seeing in my landings. matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #3 October 22, 2003 Dog, How many jumps on canopy?, how many on lines?, what is your wieght?, what problems (if any) have you experienced in these 37 jumps? This is info anyone would need to help you, preferably someone that has jumps on sharpcutter. I agree, instructors & video are best, but not always avilable. I believe the ARMY teams used sharpcutters at one time-you might try runing a search or 2 . EDIT; Ran a search using sharpcutter-Quess that answers my question about canopy, line age & experiences! (congrats. by the way) Since you have 6 more jumps on this canopy I asumed you got it fixed? What WAS the explanation? D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 October 22, 2003 Land a 7Cell??? Its nothing special to land a 7cell. But landing a ZP and landing an F111 is quite different. Comapring those canopies you used the difference is mostly the size. What is you exit weight? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helldog 0 #5 October 22, 2003 Yeah after the lines broke (all brand new out of box that day) I sent it back they put 825 spectra (525 spectra originally) and sent it back. missed one weekend of jumping. It was a different feeling donning that rig after the lines broke on the first jump. But all went well on jumps 2 thru 7. Just not have the accuracy or the soft landings yet. (i dz landing area is relatively small. Though I'm able to stand up the landings it seems to take alot of extra effort. My exit Weight is 235lbs. I guess a more appropiate question on the canopy is ... to get maximum flare should I be usining no brakes until i flare...1/2 brakes till i flare etc.??? I look forward to jumping somewhere that has nice soft grass instead of rock hard dirt... blue skies Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #6 October 22, 2003 You`d better consult with your instructor. Anyway thet 245sqfeet canopy is quite heavily loaded for your experience. Dont break in the final. It cost you "flare power". You can get flare/lift just from speed. So start flare from full glide(no beaks). Anyway I had ~50 jumps with F111 type canopies. Try to forget them. ZP gives you much-much more lift/flare(and other things too) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #7 October 22, 2003 Dog, Is Sharpcutter o/p or f-111? Do you wear glasses? I agree with phoenixlpr that you get max flare from full glide. I have to disagree with the assessment that you are "heavily" overloading your canopy at your experience level, you may be close to the line if you have slow reaction time. (My calculations show your wing load as .959) UNLESS you are in less than average physical condition or have eye sight issues, etc., you may find this loading fine for many jumps. I started at 20 jumps with a wing load of .954(f-111) & all of my jumps are on f-111. On the other hand, none were under a Sharpcutter. Many older high jump skydivers that I have talked to have tried 0/p and gone back to f-111(fewer hard opennings & less speed) I would definitely not "forget" about F-111, I believe it has value at both ends of the experience spectrum. phoenixlpr is right about getting with your instructor & or video, you may be doing something you are not aware of or purhaps your brakes/risers are not correct length resulting in less than full flare. Good luck, D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #8 October 23, 2003 I had more than 50 jumps with PD Navigator. Its a hybid F111/ZP topskin student canopy with WL between 0.8-0.95. I had no hard opening at all. I had hard openngs with Zenith 280(7cell F111 accuracy) and toggle preasure was quite high too.It has moderate speed and very soft and really forgiving landings. That experience is not compareable with landing with F111s. F111 has good point is CRW and accuracy. ZP means more speed, soft landings, more stable in turbulance and higher wind limits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkvapor 0 #9 October 23, 2003 QuoteZP means more speed, soft landings, more stable in turbulance and higher wind limits. Those things are more factors of canopy design than materials. There is not a huge difference between middle-aged ZP and middle-aged F111. Ofcourse, ZP has much longer longevity than F111, but flight characteristics are not hugely attributed to the material the canopy is made of. Part of the problem is just associations. People tend to think of F111 canopies as sluggish and poor performance because older canopies are F111. People think that ZP is higher performance (in speed, landings, turbulence, etc) because all of the high performance designs use ZP. If you build a moderate performance canopy out of ZP, and another out of F111, they will not be all that different, and most people won't even be able to tell. The F111 is going to experience performance degradation quicker. The comments you made on those canopies is more a factor of their design, not the materials they are made of. CRW and Accuracy parachutes are not trimmed and designed for good landings. They are made to fly a certain way. The material will affect internal pressurization, which does have consequences on the way it flies and lands, but not nearly as much credit as you seem to give it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #10 October 26, 2003 Dog, Check with dgskydive; (Post in Gear & Rigging- "What canopys do the military use??") He has Sharp Chutter experience. D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirenoremac 0 #11 October 28, 2003 Hey Jim, One thing I've noticed one your landings (although I haven't seen your last few) is that you tend to keep your legs high on landing (sitting in the harness), instead of standing into the landing, which means you will have to exert a lot of effort to stand-up (which you do) because your CG is back and so is the lift of the canopy (kind of) immediately at touch down. If you straighten your legs, your landings will be much easier. The little things can really make a difference. You may have already rectified this in your past few jumps, but again I've missed them. I'll make sure to watch your next few landings, and maybe get some video, and we can check out what else you could change. Blue skies man, Eric Cameron P.S. I won't be out to the DZ until 11-8, but I'll see you then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #12 October 28, 2003 Edit, The thread is; "What canopys do the military use? not rounds." Posted by; TheJokergs Check reply by; dgskydive D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #13 October 28, 2003 QuoteLand a 7Cell??? Its nothing special to land a 7cell. But landing a ZP and landing an F111 is quite different. Comapring those canopies you used the difference is mostly the size. What is you exit weight? Helldog, There is a big difference in the landings of a 7 cell and a 9 cell. A 7 cell reacts slower to control inputs than a 9 cell does. Because of this you must start you flare higher. It is also more forgiving than a 9 cell. If you flare to high you can milk it out a bit. The sharpchuter is a good canopy to make you learning mistakes on. I have about 1500 jumps on sharpchuters and just ordered a new one. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #14 October 29, 2003 If you can land a ZP 9 Cell then you can land a ZP 7 cell or vice versa. If you are facing problems have an instructor look into what you are doing or using as gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #15 October 29, 2003 >A 7 cell reacts slower to control inputs than a 9 cell does. . . . It >is also more forgiving than a 9 cell. Careful there. There's a lot more to it than that. A Diablo (7 cell) turns faster, flares better and is less forgiving than a Sabre 1 (9 cell) of the same size. Loading, fabric and planform have a lot more to do with landing a parachute than the 7 vs 9 cell thing (I think.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 October 30, 2003 Quote>A 7 cell reacts slower to control inputs than a 9 cell does. . . . It >is also more forgiving than a 9 cell. Careful there. There's a lot more to it than that. A Diablo (7 cell) turns faster, flares better and is less forgiving than a Sabre 1 (9 cell) of the same size. Loading, fabric and planform have a lot more to do with landing a parachute than the 7 vs 9 cell thing (I think.) Stand corrected. I should have said a square 7. Most square 7 cells also have much deeper cells, from top to bottom and are trimmed less steep. The Diablo is a elliptical I believe, with very shallow cells and a higher aspect ratio than traditional 7 cells.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #17 October 30, 2003 Ops. Are you comaring a square(Sabre 1) to an elliptical (Diablolo) ? Does it make any sense? Apple vs. Perry? IMHO Spectre vs. Sabre wouldve been better comaprism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
