USPA D Licence

[iam 0]

How many jumps for a USPA D

Thanks

"Don't ever knock on deaths door, just ring the bell and run away - it really pisses him off"

[ladyskydiver 0]

Right now....200. As of Sep. 30, 2003, 500.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[skydivejersey 0]

Plus some fun ones

[ladyskydiver 0]

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Plus some fun ones

Huh? I thought they were all fun....well, except for the night jumps.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[FrogNog 1]

> I thought they were all fun....well, except for the night jumps.

Uh, what's not going to be fun about night jumps?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[ladyskydiver 0]

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Uh, what's not going to be fun about night jumps?

I just didn't like them. Could be the fact that my first one (solo), I had an off-DZ landing in a flooded field. And, the 2nd one was just plain nerves and remembering the results of the first jump. All I wanted with my 2nd one was to be back on the ground.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[mcrocker 0]

Night jumps were scary for me. 1st one was from 5k feet out of a Cessna 182. I did a couple front flips before getting stable (purely intentional ;). Landing was pretty good in front of a bunch of headlights. I was *very* awake and never saw any other canopies in the air until I landed. That is the scary part. I couldn't see *sh!t*.

2nd night jump

Plan was for a 4 way + video from 10k out of a king air. I was to give the count. The king air was full so we decided to let 1/2 out do a nice slow go around and jump out on the 2nd pass.

The airport runway lights are triggered by the pilot when he 5 clicks on the radio. They say on for x minutes (not sure how many).

In the plane on the ride to altitude one of the members of my 4-way has 'shut down' all glassy eyed, non-responsive. I shake him to get his attention and ask 'Are you ready to skydive?' He gives a feeble response. I shake him more and ask again. He gets upset and pushes me away 'I'm fine, leave me alone...' Ok, I say lets get to the door and check the spot. No one leaves until you have seen the runway...

Video guy at the door, looks, spots, points to the runway.
Jumper A looks, spots, sees the runway.
Jumper B looks, spots, sees the runway.
Jumper C (me). I look, spot, see the runway
Jumper D (shutdown dude) still up by the pilot. We all yell at him to come down.
Jumper D looks, doesn't see shit
Video guy, looks, points, points, points, D still can't see it.
Spot is getting LOOOOOONNG but we have screaming uppers so we'll be fine. Jumper D still looking, can't see it.
Just about to call for a go around and D says he found the runway (way behind the plane at this time). Video guy asks 'Are you sure you see the runway?' Jumper D 'Yes, I'm fine lets go'....

Climb out, video out, A, B, C out, D in the door taking chest straps. I check the video, see nothing but a BIG ass light shining back at me. check A, B, D, Ready!, Set! Go!

....

funnel, 4 way breaks apart. I dock on jumper A, B & D stay together, video guy is getting us from above. Forget the 4 way lets just burn this 2 way down. That is enough to meet the requirements...

The plan for break off was...

Video dumps in place at 5.5k
4 way breaks atd 5.5k and tracks

D dumps at 4.5k
C dumps at 4k
B dumps at 3.5k
A dumps at 3k

At 5.5k Me an A turn 180 from center and track away. I track down til 4, look, wave, pull. Nice chute, where the f am I? lights all on, strobe flashing, where is the airport? Can't see the runway. Shit, we took to long, the runway lights have shut off again. I'm hanging out over Walmart!!! wholy shit that is on the other side of town!!. Turn to the airport, I see the rotating white, green light at the airport. Good I'm heading back now. Looking down I see I am moving across the ground. The uppers are cranking. 2k over the highway, 1k over the potato field, downwind, base, final, nice and square. Land in the peas! woohoo!. I do a head count. I see Jumper A & B, Look up for Jumper D and video. I hear video come down (he has a whistle). He lands, and should be the last one down. Where is Jumper D? Everyone freaking out. nobody saw him open, nobody saw him land. Where is he. We all start driving around looking for him. 30 minutes later he shows up, turns out he landed in the Industrial park.

Apparently Jumper D doesn't remember leaving the plane. He remembers turning away and tracking. Then while in freefall he sees someone track, wave and dump. Thinking he was going to hit the jumper below him he curled up into the fetal position. He didn't recover until below 3k and dumped at 2k. He couldn't make it back and landed in the Industrial park. We drove by the next day it was trees and powerlines everywhere. I have no idea how he didn't hit anything. He doesn't remember tha plan and the fact that he was supposed to be dumping at 4.5k and should have been sitting up under a deploying canopy as he passed through 4k. He nearly killed himself and/or someone else on the jump. Luckily nobody was hurt. I swore off night jumps that night. I'll never do them again. I'm glad I did my two and I have my D. Personally I think it is stupid to require 2 night jumps for a D license...

In short, night jumps are scary. Make sure you and everyone on your load knows what the plan is. Plan your dive and dive your plan!

-Matt

[Andie787 0]

It sounds like your problem was not jumping at night but jumping with "D".

What can make a person do that? Lack of oxygen?!

[mcrocker 0]

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It sounds like your problem was not jumping at night but jumping with "D".

What can make a person do that? Lack of oxygen?!

Fear, shock and sensory overload. It wasn't hypoxia. He was just freaking out, got it together for a bit in the plane and lost it again when we left. I didn't have the 'authority' to 'ground' him in the plane, he wouldn't have listened to me even if I tried. He should have rode the plane down but then again, At a small DZ you get your night jumps when you can or you don't get them at all.

You are right though I shouldn't have jumped with 'D'. The problem is, nobody wanted the job of doing a 2 way with 'D'. We all decided to make it a 4 way because we figured the 3 of us could keep him under control. I never figured he would completely shut down.

That is why I think night jumps should not be a requirement for a D license. The jumper would have never done a night jump if he didn't have to. And the stigma of someone walking around with a 'lowly' C license after they have 200+ jumps makes people want the D license. Essentiall peer pressuring people into getting the D, the night jumps and a scare of a life time.

I recently got my D license, I have 290 jumps and have all of the requirements done since 210 jumps. The only reason why I got it now was because the requirement is moving to 500 jumps in a month. I was constantly being asked 'Hey dude, get your D yet?' 'When you gonna get your D?' 'Gotta get your D if you plan on doing tandems, AFF Instructor ..'

Honestly, I love working with new jumpers, I think I would love becoming an AFF Instructor and possibly a Skydive U coach. It seems silly that I needed to make 2 night jumps in order to get that privledge. The idea of being a Tandem master scares the crap out of me. I'll leave that to the experts ;p

-Matt

[jumperconway 0]

Should have gone for an NSCR on your second!

[Luna 0]

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Honestly, I love working with new jumpers, I think I would love becoming an AFF Instructor and possibly a Skydive U coach. It seems silly that I needed to make 2 night jumps in order to get that privledge. The idea of being a Tandem master scares the crap out of me. I'll leave that to the experts ;p

-Matt

It's kind of funny that so many people are rushing to get their D, because with the new requirements in place, the only thing you'll need your D for is to be tandem rated or PRO rated (both of which currently require 500 jumps anyway). Everything else, from competitions to AFF instructor ratings, etc. will only require a C. I may personally never get my D. And I think you'll start seeing a lot more people with that mindset after Sep. 30.

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[dreamsville 0]

I had my B license until about jump 1200 or so, when I realized I'd need the D if I needed to do video for a 4-way team at Nationals. Since I hadn't lined up to be an instructor, it wasn't a big deal until then. Finally, however, I qualified to become Freak Brother 4143. THAT was special.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[scottjaco 0]

It really doesn't matter anyway!

A Licence lets you jump almost anywhere
B Licence lets you do night jumps
C Licence lets you coach & demo
D Licence lets you Jumpmaster

I really don't care about the last 2!

Nobody has ever asked me what license I have.....
people always ask....."how many jumps do you have?"

scott

[Mad47 0]

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The king air was full so we decided to let 1/2 out do a nice slow go around and jump out on the 2nd pass ...
..........
lights all on, strobe flashing, where is the airport? Can't see the runway ... Personally I think it is stupid to require 2 night jumps for a D license...

In short, night jumps are scary.

In short, Night jumps are awesome!

Exit order is planned by jumpmaster before loading the airplane and should be followed by everyone on jumprun.
Just doing '180' may not save you from collision with another jumper. On dive like that people should track North, South, East, West. If you knew where DZ was on jump run and tracked in pre-planned direction you should probably know where you are after opening.
I don't have anything against people who for whatever reason don't want to jump at night. But why should USPA change the requirements for D license? If you don't want to jump at night' you probably do not deserve a master license.

[mcrocker 0]

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In short, Night jumps are awesome!

Exit order is planned by jumpmaster before loading the airplane and should be followed by everyone on jumprun.
Just doing '180' may not save you from collision with another jumper. On dive like that people should track North, South, East, West. If you knew where DZ was on jump run and tracked in pre-planned direction you should probably know where you are after opening.

That is all well and good in theory, but what happens when the exit funnels and the runway lights turn off. The last time I looked the thing on my left hand didn't have marking for NSEW on it. I think 180 deg off of formation center is still a good decision. I knew where the other jumpers were. I tracked away from them. What good would tracking N be if the other jumper thought he was tracking E but was actually going N. It is a lot easier to remember 180 deg from formation center than it is to look down, locate the airport (very hard when runway lights are off) then turn in the approriate direction and track. The initial problem was this jumper was NOT ready for a night jump and brain locked down to 2k feet. Setting up complex tracking rules just for this one jump would have made matters worse.

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I don't have anything against people who for whatever reason don't want to jump at night. But why should USPA change the requirements for D license? If you don't want to jump at night' you probably do not deserve a master license.

I don't have anything against people who for whatever reason WANT to jump at night. But why should the USPA require someone to jump at night if they aspire to become a Tandem master or get their PRO rating. I have yet to see a night tandem.

Maybe the USPA could have a 'night rating'. I know Steve Woodford 'owns' the night and does big way night dives. More power to him.

It seems the whole night jump requirements for the D license came about over a late night sitting around a bon fire back in the 70s. Everything else for requirements revolve around safety and/or demostration of basic skills that are required for normal skydiving use. Night jumps are not normal skydives.

[poohbeer 0]

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It seems the whole night jump requirements for the D license came about over a late night sitting around a bon fire back in the 70s. Everything else for requirements revolve around safety and/or demostration of basic skills that are required for normal skydiving use. Night jumps are not normal skydives.

Precisely why they are in the D requirements?

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Mad47 0]

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But why should the USPA require someone to jump at night if they aspire to become a Tandem master or get their PRO rating. I have yet to see a night tandem.

Lets use the same logic and can continue the list:

1) I am too scared of freeflying and I think it is absolutely stupud and dangerous to fly around freefall imitator. They should change the requirements for Atmosphere Dolphin rating, so belly fliers can get it too.
2) I am not comfortable with more that two people around me in freefall, they should change the requirements for SCR so I can get it for 2-way jump.
And finally
3) Why do they want me to make these stupid back loops in order to pass AFF level 5???


I am not an USPA official, so this is my personal opinion. Like any other training, night jumps are required by USPA due to their educational / training value. Nobody is forced do jump at night like nobody is forced to skydive in general, but if you want to be a MASTER or PRO, you MUST do it.

[jimjumper 25]

I've noticed a few people posting that you only need a "D" for Pro and instructional ratings. If you check the SIM's you also need it to recieve Gold Wings (and above) and also Freefall Badges. I was told that this requirement came about to force people to send USPA the license fee. I was also told that if a person was not capable of the night jumps (I.E. Night Blind, etc.) they could request a "Restricted "D" license" from the BOD. I personally have never seen one granted although there was a request for one on the agenda of the last board meeting. I would bet it wasn't granted since I haven't seen anything about it since. You might be surprised when you go to your S&TA to get your wings application signed off.

[cpoxon 0]

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I've noticed a few people posting that you only need a "D" for Pro and instructional ratings. If you check the SIM's you also need it to recieve Gold Wings (and above) and also Freefall Badges.

From Section 8-2 (Achievement Awards) Sub-section C (General Requirements)

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d. be the holder of a current USPA D license or its accepted foreign equivalent

I'd quite like to apply for a USPA award when I've achieved one so it looks like my BPA license will be accepted instead (I've never applied for a USPA license. I wonder if obtaining another countries license, or the FAI International Parachuting Certificates of Proficiency (which I don't believe requires a night jump) could be a way around this.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[kallend 2,026]

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But why should the USPA require someone to jump at night if they aspire to become a Tandem master or get their PRO rating. I have yet to see a night tandem.

Lets use the same logic and can continue the list:

1) I am too scared of freeflying and I think it is absolutely stupud and dangerous to fly around freefall imitator. They should change the requirements for Atmosphere Dolphin rating, so belly fliers can get it too.
2) I am not comfortable with more that two people around me in freefall, they should change the requirements for SCR so I can get it for 2-way jump.
And finally
3) Why do they want me to make these stupid back loops in order to pass AFF level 5???


I am not an USPA official, so this is my personal opinion. Like any other training, night jumps are required by USPA due to their educational / training value. Nobody is forced do jump at night like nobody is forced to skydive in general, but if you want to be a MASTER or PRO, you MUST do it.

What is their educational/training value? What is the learning objective of night jumps? How is it assessed? Can you point to the part of the SIM that states the exact purpose of the night jump requirement?

jk - D23151 (I've done mine)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Mad47 0]

To develop equipment awareness and learn how to fly safely when your vision is limited. Could be very helpful when you have to land in dark without actually planning to do so. Delayed sunset load is a good example.
Once again, I am only expressing my personal opinion. I only have six night jumps (because I am very new in sport) but I loved every one of them.

[kallend 2,026]

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To develop equipment awareness and learn how to fly safely when your vision is limited. Could be very helpful when you have to land in dark without actually planning to do so. Delayed sunset load is a good example.
Once again, I am only expressing my personal opinion. I only have six night jumps (because I am very new in sport) but I loved every one of them.

Since when did you need a "D" license to get on a sunset load? If it is delayed, do the B and C license holders have to ride the plane down? Sorry, that doesn't work.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Luna 0]

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I've noticed a few people posting that you only need a "D" for Pro and instructional ratings. If you check the SIM's you also need it to recieve Gold Wings (and above) and also Freefall Badges.

The reference to only needing a D for Pro and Tandem ratings is based off of the new SIM coming out next month. Obviously it isn't out yet so we can't check it, but here is the quote from the article in Parachutist referring to this:

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Perhaps the most controversial of all license requirements - night jumps - stays with the D license at 500 jumps. USPA tried to make it easy for someone with 200 jumps and a C license to do what the old 200-jump D license allowed - most competitions, most ratings and most special jumps - without having to make a night jump. Two exceptions are USPA Tandem Instructor ratings and PRO Ratings, which still require a D license and its two night jumps. Both previously required 500 jumps, anyway.

This doesn't directly address the achievement awards, but leads you to believe that the D requirement for those has been changed as well. I will find out and let you know for sure.

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[Mad47 0]

Look at my post again. I never said that D license is required for sunset loads.

What surprises me is that opponents of night jumping always use the same logic: "It is scary, it is unnecessary, lets change the requirements for D license" It looks like the same letter to Parachutist or same post at dz.com is being rewritten over and over again. I never seen a person taking a blame for not wanting to make a skydive at night, however I don't understand why the requirements should be changed because some people are not comfortable with them.

[Luna 0]

Just confirmed that the D license will still be required for the wings and badges awards under the new system.

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