freakydiver 0 #1 August 25, 2003 In all seriousness - in your opinion, is it easier to understand that powerlines generally run parellel to a road and plan to avoid them knowing that or is it easier to plan for the movements of another canopy pilot that you may or may not see no matter how swiveled your head is. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 August 25, 2003 So, what caused you to ask this? I'm guessing some recent event?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #3 August 25, 2003 No a thread in which it has been pointed out to me that a canopy is way easier to prepare for which i think is complete crap to be honest with you... Also, I think people should realize where powerlines USUALLY sit so they can plan off field landings appropriately and NOT LAND as close to the road as possible. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #4 August 25, 2003 QuoteIn all seriousness - in your opinion, is it easier to understand that powerlines generally run parellel to a road and plan to avoid them knowing that or is it easier to plan for the movements of another canopy pilot that you may or may not see no matter how swiveled your head is. We're talking about seeing the wire. Not the effect of the wire. You are much more likely to see a 15 foot wide canopy than a 3 inch line.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #5 August 25, 2003 Read the damn title - which is easier to PLAN FOR. PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN!!!!!! Go to that other thread if you want to dissect my semantics. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #6 August 25, 2003 Also - if it were easier to plan for another canopy in the air then why are there so many canopy collisions? People seem to be able to pick off site landing locations pretty darn easily compared to what airspace to spiral through. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #7 August 25, 2003 QuoteRead the damn title - which is easier to PLAN FOR. PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN!!!!!! Go to that other thread if you want to dissect my semantics. I did...and just because you didn't get what you were looking for there you started a poll here to prove how right you are. Shheeeeesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #8 August 25, 2003 No - there was no poll over in the other thread. I wanted a poll, I started a poll, people are answering the poll, that is all I wanted. I still think by far it is a ton easier to plan for something that doesn't move than it is to plan for something that moves and things. Cahos theory is it?? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #9 August 25, 2003 QuoteAlso - if it were easier to plan for another canopy in the air then why are there so many canopy collisions? People seem to be able to pick off site landing locations pretty darn easily compared to what airspace to spiral through. If memory serves me correctly I think I have read as many power line strikes this year as canopy collisions. And I'd say there are more people landing on the airport than off. So the chances of striking a powerline is higher I guess than hitting another canopy according to statistics. But then again, yah, we could argue this until the cows come home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 August 25, 2003 QuoteRead the damn title - which is easier to PLAN FOR. PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN!!!!!! Go to that other thread if you want to dissect my semantics. No offense, but it's a bogus question. They're both equally easy to PLAN for. But which plan will be more effective should the situation arise? Plan A) I won't go near any power lines. Plan B) I won't go near any other canopies in the air. Which plan can be more realistically achieved? Either. Don't land near roads or cleared areas with poles for the first. Don't land where anyone else is for the second. But, which plan would people stick by more reliably. Probably the first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #11 August 25, 2003 QuoteNo - there was no poll over in the other thread. I wanted a poll, I started a poll, people are answering the poll, that is all I wanted. I still think by far it is a ton easier to plan for something that doesn't move than it is to plan for something that moves and things. Cahos theory is it?? The main landing area doesn't move does it? You know other canopies will be landing there because they were on your plane. You can't plan to look for them? Come on now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #12 August 25, 2003 True true - I respect 99 percent of what you say, just not in this one instance. My only point was that the guy that ran into Roger maybe could have planned a bit better and if Roger were in the same place at all times it would be easier to plan for him. I'm certainly never going to tell my future prospective students that powerlines don't run parellel to roads, I'm going to tell them, most of the time they do, so try to land away from the road. In that case, that will be a hard a fast rule that they, as have I, will generally always follow because they have been mentally prepared (i.e. they planned) on what to do when landing off. Also, this doesn't mean I'd stress less the saying "keep you head on a freekin swivel while under canopy". My main point to them would be, look, you can plan where powerlines are when landing off. If you find yourself landing off, plan where you are going to land using the powerline knowledge and then move on to bigger and better things such as continuously moving your head around on a swivel since you cannot possibly plan for other people's actions under canopy. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #13 August 25, 2003 Alright buckaroo. We can lock horns on this all day. I think we both have safety in mind and that's what counts. I don't think we will get any points on our score cards to find out truly who is more right here. Both things need to be considered as a body of knowledge for safe skydiving. Agreed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #14 August 25, 2003 How is it bogus - do you keep your head swiveling looking for powerlines or canopies while under canopy once you have looked where you are going to land? Once you've scoped your landing out, you've already said to yourself, there is probably a given obstruction there and there so I am going to land there. After that, the thing you can't possibly plan for is what the other guy is doing in the air under his canopy around you, thus the reasoning behind the saying "keep your head on a swivel". IMHO, if you think you can plan what another canopy pilot is going to do, you are already as good as gone. Its quite comprable to driving a car. Let's say I'm driving at night where my vision sucks. I can still plan that the road ends at the solid yellow line that is painted on the side of the road and I probably shouldn't cross that line when I can't see off the side of the road, but no matter what, there is no possible way I can plan for what the guy in the car in front of me or behind me or in the incoming lane of traffic is going to do. Gotta react to him and be on my toes to be able to do so, the yellow line is already an afterthought and I don't waste precious time worrying about it once I've told myself the importance of it. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #15 August 25, 2003 Completely - and seriously, I don't mean any kind of offense dd. I really think 99.9999999999 (okay screw it 100%) of your posts have merit!!! Done ranting and raving, I agree with you. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #16 August 25, 2003 QuoteDone ranting and raving, I agree with you. See, I knew in the end you'd see it my way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #17 August 25, 2003 How do you do that??? PS Anyone reading this... I mean absolutely no disrespect to Roger or the individual who was involved with Roger's incident. It is a testament to how the people of this sport can be - even in the worst types of situations, we all end up supporting one another and I would gladly support anyone and all hurting from Roger not being around anymore. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #18 August 25, 2003 QuoteHow do you do that??? Jedi mind tricks. Hey no offense taken. Debate is healthy if it stays as a debate on track with the facts as we know them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #19 August 25, 2003 QuoteCompletely - and seriously, I don't mean any kind of offense dd. I really think 99.9999999999 (okay screw it 100%) of your posts have merit!!! Done ranting and raving, I agree with you. Does that mean that you agree with me? never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #20 August 25, 2003 That's our diverdriver. Able to make other people see things his way It's that damn white man magic.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usedtajump 1 #21 August 25, 2003 QuoteIn all seriousness - in your opinion, is it easier to understand that powerlines generally run parellel to a road and plan to avoid them knowing that or is it easier to plan for the movements of another canopy pilot that you may or may not see no matter how swiveled your head is. Oh Hell, I had a very instructor - like answer for the original question then read through the thread then it just pissed me off. Some of you people need to chill, it's ONLY skydiving and it's supposed to be fun. I got out of the sport mainly because of people that try to force their will on everyone and make everything a doctorate thesis. Hell, I can and still do, get that at work for MUCH more money. Somewhat sorry for the rantThe older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #22 August 26, 2003 We're talking about seeing the wire. Not the effect of the wire. You are much more likely to see a 15 foot wide canopy than a 3 inch line. Although the wire is very difficult to see, the poles it is strung on are quite easily seen....... line of tall poles = 'bad' just my .02$ RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #23 August 26, 2003 QuoteIn all seriousness - in your opinion, is it easier to understand that powerlines generally run parellel to a road and plan to avoid them knowing that or is it easier to plan for the movements of another canopy pilot that you may or may not see no matter how swiveled your head is. Nothing like a loaded question! If you want an accurate gauge of how people feel, make the question neutral in tone.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #24 August 26, 2003 Surely hazards such as power lines etc are pointed out to you when you go to a DZ?? I think it will be much easier to avoid power lines cos you know (or should know) where they are. So you simply say "I'm staying the fuck away from them" Its like saying "Whats more dangerous to a car driver, a mad motorist not looking where he's going or that big ass wall which you can see for miles?" A power line is not going to fly past you spiralling towards the ground, or cut you off as you approach to land. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #25 August 26, 2003 Its not a loaded question at all - simply put, which is easier to plan for, did I stutter before. If you can't or won't answer the question, stop bothering my thread and go away. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
