Downsizing from initial student canopy...

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

How do you know when you are ready to downsize to a smaller canopy from the one you train on as a student? I only have 22 jumps, but feel really good about my landings on the Sabre 190 that I learned on. I am just starting to get near the target, tho (thank god, thought i'd never get those signed off on the a card, lol!) Actually hit the target dead center once (fluke, lol!). Anyhow, how do I know when it is time to downsize closer to a 1:1 wingloading? I am 5'4" and weigh about 120lbs. Could I possibly try a 170 soon?

Thanks!
Angela.

[AggieDave 6]

The best people to ask are your instructors. They're the ones that see you fly your canopy every weekend (or everytime you jump) and can help you decide if you're ready to step down yet. If they don't think you're ready, they'll help you progress to where you are.

Talk to them, and good luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pilotdave 0]

Hehe a sabre 190 is a hotrod compared to the canopies i used till I had about 40 jumps. I am about your size and made my first jump on a 170, but it wasn't a sabre, it was a PD 9 cell. Then I switched DZs and upsized to a 230. Made a couple of jumps on mantas (288s) too.

Why do ya want to downsize anyway?

Dave

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Yeah, i'll visit a dz this wknd probly. I have kinda spread out my jumps between 2 dzs, did my last bit of 'em in Deland and it is much farther than Sebastian is, so i'll likely not get there as much (unfortunately, but both are awesome!).

Dunno why I want to downsize come to think of it... guess I just figure that the rig will be smaller, the flight will be faster and more fun/exciting, and it might be a bit easier to pack, lol!

Angela.

[FrenchyDiver 0]

Hi Angela, As it was pointed out, talk to your instructors. What you have to first make sure is that you are extremely confident with your actual size of canopy before downsizing. The smaller they are, the more skills they require. Although, given your weight, a 170 wont be too much to handle for you. But talk to the instructors first

Cheers

JM

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Cool, definitely will do! pm me sometime & say hi, JM!

Angela.

[scottjaco 0]

I think you should take it slow!

Read my post in the incidents section titled "My broken fibula at Perris"

After reading it, you can decide what you want to do.

Don't get influenced by the swoopers at you DZ, they have a zillion jumps under their belt......

The smaller the canopy, the less forgiving it is, BUT SMALLER CANOPIES ARE A HELL OF A LOT MORE FUN!!

It depends on how aggressive you want to be!

scott

[pd190 0]

Ya' know, people are always asking this question....

"Do you think I'm ready for a {sabre2 150} (add any canopy here)???"

This is what I think.... (my opinions)

1. How long have you been flying that {210}??
2. How long has it been since you hit the X?
3. Can you call it and hit it regularly??
4. Have you experienced everything that canopy has to offer? If you don't know then you haven't.
5. Have you tried a {190} or {anything else}?
6. Can you land that {210} in a tight out??
7. Who has flown with you and watched your canopy control?
8. how are your landings??

I guess my biggest thing is talk with your instructors! Let them help you when making your desicion to downsize. GO Slow! there is no reason to go from a student size canopy (we use 300's and 260's F111) to a ZP 120! The excuse that it was cheap and available is not an option. Is your physical well-being cheap and available?? I think not.

Granted, these are just my opinions and the smallest thing I've flown is a sabre2 150. Below listed is my canopy progression...

started in the military - --375 sq ft
moved to a Falcon 215....100 jumps on it
moved to a PD190....400 jumps on it
demo'd a Sabre2 170....10 jumps (mikey likes)
demo'd a 150 after 500 jumps....fast nioce
demoing a firebolt 182 when it gets here
next on the list is a firebolt 164.

Bottom line: Go slow, listen to what people are telling you. If someone says, "Man, at 240 lbs and only 120 jumps, I don't think that you are ready for a Cobalt 120."...maybe you should listen (Used as an example from an incident about a year ago that the guy is still recovering from.)

Once again, just my opinions...

[Rdy2skydive 0]

Don't be too quick to downsize too fast. I'm the same height and weight that you are and I learned on a Manta 230. With 20 jumps I started to purchase my own gear. My instructors all recommended that I buy a Sabre 2 150. Even at less than a 1:1 wing loading, this was a fast canopy for me. 14 Jumps and 4 crash landings later I put my Sabre 2 up for sale and purchased a Spectre 170. I would have bought a 190 but it wouldn't fit into my container. It's been an expensive and valuable learning experience. Do what you want but I would advise to downsize slowly. Good Luck!

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Thanks all!! I'm gonna work on accuracy with this one for some more jumps me thinks:)

Angela.

[luckky 0]

hi,,,kwell u hittin the peas..i have 15 jumps and i downsized very quickly...in one weekend of jumping i went from a spectrum 190 to a tri 170 which i am 5'2 115lbs,,which is still way underloading but for awhile i am going to stick with the 170..i get pretty close to the peas on most all my landings..
live to luv
luv to live
lucky

If there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant
liv2luv
luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1

lucky

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

It took me a good 10 landings to be able to reliably land on my feet, then another 5 to get close to target. I've hit the target only 1 time, but have come within the 20 meters (a card) like 5 times. I do need to get better with landing on target, so i'll work on accuracy a bit more. How does a smaller canopy hinder accuracy, tho? Just curious.

Angela .

[luckky 0]

in my case although it is a smaller canopy,,compared to student gear,,i like it alot better and am finding out that it is a bit diff and have only one stand up landing with it ,,in the target area,,from what i have been told a bigger canopy is good for accuracy,,but then again,, what do i know but what my JM tells me,,he is thinking that i should go for accuracy at this point,,cuz i been doing very good at it so far,,as well as being able to fly pretty good also..heck i only got 15 jumps,,would be intrested in others input also..in the next month i will have to probably downsize again,, to a 150,,gotta watch the winds..

liv to luv
live to luv
lucky

If there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant
liv2luv
luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1

lucky

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I think i'd be safe on a 170 now, but i'll wait until someone tells me that 4 sure. I definitely wouldn't go 150, I haven't even flown a 170 yet. I am not looking to break any bones, just wanna have fun. I think that i'll play with the 190 for a few more jumps, get some opinions while working on accuracy b4 downsizing to a 170. A 150 would be ~1:1 for me I believe (rig weighs like 30, right?), but I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going to that until i've had at least 20+ nice landings on a 170. But, like u, what do I know, i've got only 22 jumps, .

Funny, when I started this a month ago, 100 jumps seemed like so many. Now that i'm 1/5 of the way there, I realize that at 100 jumps, i'll still know pretty close to nothing.

Angela.

[skymama 37]

Quote

I realize that at 100 jumps, i'll still know pretty close to nothing.

That's a good thing to remember! Also remember that you need to fly the canopy, don't let it fly you. If you're having accuracy problems, then I don't think you should downsize yet. It might also benefit you to take a canopy control course. I did it at around 40 jumps with Scott Miller (and then a more advanced class at 200) and he worked wonders for me. He's very affordable too. I know money is tight for you, but canopy control classes are well worth it.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Hiya, Andrea. Yep, I hear ya on the canopy control courses... matter of fact, i've spoken with Scott, and he'll be outta town this wknd, but I do plan to get up with him soon. I am definitely going to school with him, I think it would be more than worth it!

Yeah, I guess the canopy is pretty much flying me. I mean, I don't feel like the master of my canopy. I've been semi-fairly-accurate (hahahah!), ok, I do need help on accuracy. :) You should'a seen it when I landed dead center of the X, tho,... I was SO happy! lol!!

angela.

[Magikchild 0]

Hi Angela!
I did see your ONE landing on-target. Not a fluke, but the ONE TIME everything came together for you. Good job! Downsizing will put you under a faster, more responsive canopy. Your instructors have REPEATEDLY cautioned you regarding this issue, but it seems that isnt what you want to hear. Remember, the huge grassy student area is your target (not the active runway), landing on your feet there is a good first step, and landing on the "X" was wonderful, the best I've seen you make. When you land consistantly near the "X" on your feet, your instructors won't hold you back, so be patient, have some fun, and be consistent with the 190. You did, after all, just downsize TO a 190 from the 230 you jumped as a student. You are making progress. Relax and hang in there. You don't need to downsize twice in 25 jumps.

___________________________________________________

Whatever

[VisionAir 0]

Quote

Funny, when I started this a month ago, 100 jumps seemed like so many. Now that i'm 1/5 of the way there, I realize that at 100 jumps, i'll still know pretty close to nothing.

Angela.

Hence the term....100 jump wonder.
Sounds like your a step ahead of the game.
Just remember.... BABY STEPS

Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze
Alex M.

[vonSanta 0]

Hm, one thing I've experienced with large canopies (280's for instace) is that when a small guy like me (145lbs) is hanging in 'em, you get tossed around a lot by turbulence.

I also dislike not being able to 'trust' it in 360s. I've had a 280 do a sharp diving right turn after I gently pulled down full on the left toggle. Naturally I just released the input, but it spooked me.

The Sabre 190 I tried out was much more friendly and I felt a good deal more confident in it. Crisp response, great flare, not so much buffeting and less susceptible to turbulence. Turned it all I could and couldn't induce the 'wrong turn nose dive' thing I experience on PD-280's from time to time. 280's I don't even dare to turn more than one 360 turn at a time.

Of course I am just a dumb newbie with only 36 jumps. This is just my personal experience, and a 190 is still loaded quite lightly for a chap my weight and size. I just feel more confident when the canopy does what I ask of it, instead of the other way around

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[Rdutch 0]

but I do plan to get up with him soon.

Quote

I thought you wanted to get with me soon, LOL.

***Yeah, I guess the canopy is pretty much flying me. I mean, I don't feel like the master of my canopy. I've been semi-fairly-accurate (hahahah!), ok, I do need help on accuracy. :) You should'a seen it when I landed dead center of the X, tho,... I was SO happy! lol!!

angela.

One thing I can say is take your time, with your experience, its all learning, and the bigger the better, we all learn from mistakes, and we all have em. The only thing is the bigger the canopy you fly the more forgiving the mistake. There is a Ton of skydivers with broken bones, or even worse (need I say it) Walk slowly, well actually crawl, then walk, then Jog, and then if you choose after jogging a lot run slowly. What you saw us doing this weekend with our canopies took thousands of jumps. Its definitely a long hard road, but if you take your time and dont downsize and most of all, if someone says your not ready, especially if more than one person, then your probably not ready. Quote I learned myself from life, "its better to spend a year learning to to do something, than to spend a year (recovering) wishing you had". Either way be safe and take care, most of all dont rush.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Magik, yea, I hear ya. I was upset by having to upsize to the 230, and I didn't even fly that perfect b4 I wanted the 190 back again. But, the 230 felt awful compared, so I was happy to get back on the 190. I'm not trying to put myself under something that's gonna kill me. I realized I better learn to fly better when I read skymama's about not letting the canopy fly you. I should have more control, and I don't think I have it... so i'm gonna keep on the 190 for now and see if I can feel more in control of where I go, rather than just standing up where I land:) Thanks for your concern, hope you don't think i'm a total prick for asking the question about when it is appropriate to downsize, guess I just felt like, hey, I can stand up landings, so I should be able to downsize... when in reality, there is a lot more I should be able to do b4 downsizing.

Hi, Ray! Awe, baby, don't be jealous... u know I only want u
K, baby steps... it's so easy to want more in this sport, I just gotta take it slow. Yes, I know what can happen, guess I need to remind myself of it more often and have a bit more patience. I've only stood up landings consistantly for the last 10 jumps or so, that's not very much. Watching u guys swoop was awesome!! When do u do it again? Hope i'm invited

Thanks to everyone for their help/reality checks

Angela.

[bigfritz 0]

Quote

How do you know when you are ready to downsize to a smaller canopy from the one you train on as a student? I only have 22 jumps, but feel really good about my landings on the Sabre 190 that I learned on. I am just starting to get near the target, tho (thank god, thought i'd never get those signed off on the a card, lol!) Actually hit the target dead center once (fluke, lol!). Anyhow, how do I know when it is time to downsize closer to a 1:1 wingloading? I am 5'4" and weigh about 120lbs. Could I possibly try a 170 soon?

Thanks!
Angela.

I have 20 jumps and I use a Triathlon 135. I'm 5'6" and weigh 130 pounds and I have no problems with it. I love all the control I have with the smaller canopies. I'd go smaller if I could! =P

------------------------
Freefly, baby.

[Fireflyer 0]

i am a newbie too, but that seems like a really small chute for 20 jumps.

anyway, my 2 cents as a beginner: i am 145 lbs and started on a 190. i have almost completed my A card (18 jumps).

i jumped a 230 last week and had fun with it (my rental was being used). heck i am in for the freefall! the slow flying chute was a nice switch, and the handling to my newbie self wasn't too different, if slower. the flare sucked for me, but the DZO prepped me for that.

my JMs told me they will move me to a 170 soon (on their gear or now if i buy) and I just trust them to make the call for me. heck i trusted them for AFF right? i have no reason to stop listening now!