JasonCT13 0 #1 October 19, 2003 Hi everyone, I am pretty new to the whole sport of skydiving, being that I now have only 35 jumps. I weigh about 190 and am flying a Saber 190. Just yesterday I had a very scary moment, which I would like to share with you all. It was my 3rd jump of the day and I did a little sit flying, which by the way went very well. After a good opening and stable canopy I proceeded to practice toggle turn before I made my downwind approach. At about 2000ft, I made a toggle turn, and to my surprise the canopy made a hard dive and wrapped itself around and around, to the point where I had 3 or 4 line twist. At this point I am pretty much shitting a brick, do I cut or stay. Luckily after the inital lines twists and diving turn, the canopy was stable, and fly straight. I kept my head, and kicked my way out of the line twists. Once I was out, I was at 1000ft and was close enough to make it back to the land area landing downwind. After discussing my scary, yet humbling experience I believe my mistake, was too HARD or SHARP of a toggle turn. Turns should be smooth, and slow, which allows the canopy as well as the pilot move as one in the same direction. Anyone have any input or suggestions? Ever happen to you or someone you know? Luckily someone upstairs was watching over me, and turned what could have been terrible experience into a learning experience. Hope this helps, be safe, and best of luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 October 19, 2003 QuoteEver happen to you or someone you know? Yup, did that once. Did a hard toggle turn one way then another hard toggle turn the otherway (I had about 30 jumps) and spun up the canopy. Sounds like you already talked to the instructors at your DZ about this and came to a good conclusion.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #3 October 19, 2003 Don't worry, you aren't alone on this one. I think this happens to almost everyone while they are still learning. In fact, someone at my DZ has this happen to them whenever they demo a new canopy, and they have over 150 jumps. I found that if you want to do spirals, first just pull down the toggle about 1/4, then you can yank it down the rest of the way and it shouldn't spin up. Try messing around with your canopy up high, and see what works for you. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #4 October 19, 2003 QuoteLuckily after the inital lines twists and diving turn, the canopy was stable, and fly straight. I kept my head, and kicked my way out of the line twists. Once I was out, I was at 1000ft and was close enough to make it back to the land area landing downwind. Why didn't you ditch the unlandable main and go for the reserve? QuoteAfter discussing my scary, yet humbling experience I believe my mistake, was too HARD or SHARP of a toggle turn. The other mistake you made was not getting rid of an unlandable canopy at your hard deck. If you had played with those line twists for a few more seconds this could very well have been an incident. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
czechbase 0 #5 October 20, 2003 I had the same experience when I was jumping a PD 190. Someone was telling me it's because your body goes faster than the canopy? I'm not too sure of that. I was freaking out! Luckily I got out of the line twists pretty quick. Right now I stick to rear riser and front riser turns. Front riser turns are fun (but nothing radical below a 1000 feet for me!) Safe swoopswww.motavi.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonCT13 0 #6 October 20, 2003 Quote The other mistake you made was not getting rid of an unlandable canopy at your hard deck. If you had played with those line twists for a few more seconds this could very well have been an incident. Well being that I was under a good canopy then having this problem, if I were to cutaway, and go to my reserve at anything under 2000ft I think might have been worse off. Wouldn't it take much longer for the reserve to open, since I am not falling as fast as if I was terminal. So that would leave me even less time to fly my reserve to good landing area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #7 October 20, 2003 QuoteWell being that I was under a good canopy then having this problem, if I were to cutaway, and go to my reserve at anything under 2000ft I think might have been worse off. Wouldn't it take much longer for the reserve to open, since I am not falling as fast as if I was terminal. So that would leave me even less time to fly my reserve to good landing area. Reserves are designed to open in 300 feet or less, regardless if you are at terminal or sub terminal. Given the choice between a malfunctioning main and not much time under the reserve, take the reserve. To prevent self-induced line twists, be smooth. Full input it OK, but must be input smoothly. Jerking a toggle down too far too fast can cause that side of the canopy to stop too fast and the other side fly's around it and you have self-induced line twists. Self-induced line twists can be unrecoverable if the steering line that was pulled down gets caught in the twists. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #8 October 20, 2003 QuoteQuoteWell being that I was under a good canopy then having this problem, if I were to cutaway, and go to my reserve at anything under 2000ft I think might have been worse off. Wouldn't it take much longer for the reserve to open, since I am not falling as fast as if I was terminal. So that would leave me even less time to fly my reserve to good landing area. Reserves are designed to open in 300 feet or less, regardless if you are at terminal or sub terminal. Given the choice between a malfunctioning main and not much time under the reserve, take the reserve. To prevent self-induced line twists, be smooth. Full input it OK, but must be input smoothly. Jerking a toggle down too far too fast can cause that side of the canopy to stop too fast and the other side fly's around it and you have self-induced line twists. Self-induced line twists can be unrecoverable if the steering line that was pulled down gets caught in the twists. Derek Pure speculation follows: I wonder if the video-game generation is more prone to doing this? Abrupt, rapid control movements are required in many video games. When I watched my kids and the GF's kids, it seems that smooth is not part of the equation when it comes to controlling anything.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Hooknswoop 19 #7 October 20, 2003 QuoteWell being that I was under a good canopy then having this problem, if I were to cutaway, and go to my reserve at anything under 2000ft I think might have been worse off. Wouldn't it take much longer for the reserve to open, since I am not falling as fast as if I was terminal. So that would leave me even less time to fly my reserve to good landing area. Reserves are designed to open in 300 feet or less, regardless if you are at terminal or sub terminal. Given the choice between a malfunctioning main and not much time under the reserve, take the reserve. To prevent self-induced line twists, be smooth. Full input it OK, but must be input smoothly. Jerking a toggle down too far too fast can cause that side of the canopy to stop too fast and the other side fly's around it and you have self-induced line twists. Self-induced line twists can be unrecoverable if the steering line that was pulled down gets caught in the twists. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #8 October 20, 2003 QuoteQuoteWell being that I was under a good canopy then having this problem, if I were to cutaway, and go to my reserve at anything under 2000ft I think might have been worse off. Wouldn't it take much longer for the reserve to open, since I am not falling as fast as if I was terminal. So that would leave me even less time to fly my reserve to good landing area. Reserves are designed to open in 300 feet or less, regardless if you are at terminal or sub terminal. Given the choice between a malfunctioning main and not much time under the reserve, take the reserve. To prevent self-induced line twists, be smooth. Full input it OK, but must be input smoothly. Jerking a toggle down too far too fast can cause that side of the canopy to stop too fast and the other side fly's around it and you have self-induced line twists. Self-induced line twists can be unrecoverable if the steering line that was pulled down gets caught in the twists. Derek Pure speculation follows: I wonder if the video-game generation is more prone to doing this? Abrupt, rapid control movements are required in many video games. When I watched my kids and the GF's kids, it seems that smooth is not part of the equation when it comes to controlling anything.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
