Jimbo 0 #1 February 28, 2003 It seems that every few months we hear about problems encountered trying to bring a rig on the airlines. I thought it would be nice to have a single repository listing airlines and rig friendly luggage policies. Hopefully, people can print the airline luggage policy and, if necessary, use it to get through security or past the ticket counter. I've only found two policies that mention parachuting equipment, Continental and Delta. Continental's policy Parachutes/Parasails Continental accepts sport parachutes and parasails in lieu of one piece of free baggage. A parachute or parasail taken onboard the aircraft must meet carry-on size restrictions for placement underneath an aircraft seat. When checked as baggage, all excess, oversize and overweight charges will apply. Delta's policy Parachutes Sport parachutes are accepted under the rules and procedures for carry-on baggage provided no items classified as dangerous goods (example: pressurized oxygen cylinders) are included. I've checked the following airlines, but found nothing to support traveling with a rig. Airtran American Airlines Frontier Northwest Southwest United US Air Feel free to post corrections or additions. Edit: This document from the USPA might be helpful as well December 20, 2002 Alexandria, Virginia Due to cost and personal security of a parachute rig, many skydivers prefer to carry their rigs onto commercial flights. At this point, USPA knows of no U.S. airline that prohibits parachute rigs as carry-on items. However, jumpers may find it easier to carry their equipment in a protective equipment bag. It is always advisable to present a good profile to inspectors, who are trained to observe numerous external passenger traits and characteristics. At USPA's request, the Transportation Security Administration is providing information to its screener agents about rigs and computerized automatic activation devices installed on most parachutes. This information should reduce the necessity for a detailed, hand-inspection of a rig, which otherwise could include the opening of a reserve container. (Most skydivers are not authorized to reclose a reserve parachute.) It should also reduce instances of a jumper with a parachute being turned away from the gate area. Checked Item Beginning January 1, the TSA requires all checked items to be inspected before being placed on an airplane. The TSA is advising passengers not to lock checked bags so they can be opened for inspection. Tests involving USPA and TSA officials at the TSA facility in Atlantic City verified that AADs do not trigger explosive detection equipment used by airport security. TSA officials assured USPA that a hand search of a checked item should not occur if the item successfully passes through security systems that airports have installed. Skydivers should be prepared, because isolated problems getting parachutes through security may still occur, typically requiring better communication with airport security personnel. Jumpers should carry and present USPA membership cards and/or FAA rigger certificates in the event their parachute is flagged. USPA advises jumpers to remain patient, cooperate and to provide USPA with the date, time, airport, and details of the problem, including whether the parachute rig was being transported as a carry-on or checked item. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverjon 0 #2 February 28, 2003 I flew to Florida last month, Had no trouble with USAir. I called USPA for a list of airline policies and they had one for USAir. I had it faxed to me and took it just in case. They do have one for several airlines but, you'd need to phone USPA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #3 February 28, 2003 A number of people have mentioned the Cypress card. I have traveled without one in the past, but don't look forward to it in the future. Does anyone know a site from which to print one out, or are they not available on line? Mahalo.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #4 February 28, 2003 I flew back from Pheonix with BA a couple of weeks ago and when they asked me to unlock my case I mentioned that there was a rig inside just so it wouldn't surprise them, the person on check in said it wouldn't be a problem as since the 300-way they had so many rigs through they were used to it. Picked my case from the baggage reclaim at Heathrow and it haddn't been opened. No problems at all. The only issue I do see is if they start getting really tight and stop allowing rigs with AADs what are the other options? Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matttrudeau 0 #5 February 28, 2003 The airline screeners know exactly what a rig looks like. 99% of the time you will be fine, thanks to the USPA! Just remember to remove your hook knife. I forgot to remove it once and it slipped through security. Oh well! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #6 February 28, 2003 QuoteThe airline screeners know exactly what a rig looks like. You're right, most of them do know what a rig looks like, unfortunately though some do not and this seems to cause problems. Quote99% of the time you will be fine, It's the remaining 1% that seems to cause problems for people. I know that the USPA is currently working with TSA to remedy this problem, but until a parachute rig makes it onto the list of 'approved' items the problems will continue. Until that time it will benefit all skydivers to travel with the appropriate documentation. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #7 February 28, 2003 I hve never had a problem with any of the following travelling from Philly/Baltimore to Orlando/West Palm/Tampa: American Delta AirTran USAir Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beavdog 0 #8 February 28, 2003 I am planning on traveling to Cancun in about 3 weeks and I thought it would be great to make a couple jumps at Playa del Carmen. I was wondering if it would be better to check my rig or carry it on...I didnt know if international travel would be more of a problem Here's to the Breezes that blows through the Trezzez..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 February 28, 2003 I flew last week with my rig during the Orange alert status. Went through PHL, LAX, Vegas and O'Hare. My rig was flagged at every one of them and I had to open the case it was in. After telling them what it was, I had no further problems. They didn't even take it out of the bag, just had me unzip it to show them what it was. Noone asked about the Cypress and at one place the girl said "Oh a parachute, I just read something about them" Went away for a couple minutes, came back and let me move on. I was flying United. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #10 March 1, 2003 I had some minor problems in Palm Springs which I wrote about in an earlier post. I wrote the TSA security director at Palm Springs after I got home. He was a former ATC specialist. I gave him a litle bit about my bacckground in aviation and skydiving and enclosed the info that was posted below from the USPA website and also the DOT approval letter for Cypres that was on their website. We talked over the phone before I mailed the data to him. He sent me a nice letter back informing me that he would make sure the entire screener workforce was familiar with parachutes and the DOT Cypres approval and would take it up with the TSA training department. TSA incidently should have new guidlines in place regarding parachutes and Cypres as per the tests they conducted with USPA at NAFEC in Atlantic City. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slink2 0 #11 March 1, 2003 I flew last September on Delta with a plane change in Atlanta and had no problem at all. However, they hovered over my wife's garage door opener on her key chain. In Atlanta I was singled out for a security check, I thought "oh great". When I opened my gear bag the security chick said "oh you have another back pack in here" Well I explained it was a parachute system and expected her to make me open the main and reserve. The conversation then drifted to skydiving and how she "always wanted to try that". Gear bag zipped up and I'm on my way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #12 March 1, 2003 If you fly Southwest, nicely ask the ticket agent at the counter to look up the policy on the Cypres in their bag regulations database. Then when they find it, ask them to print it out and put their signature on it. You should have no problems getting through security, since it says that a parachute with a Cypres is allowed as a carryon. I'm not sure if any of the other airlines will do this, but I guess it's worth a shot. I am extremely hesistant to check my rig anymore, since they are now allowed to go unlock your checked bags and go through them. I don't want some half-literate TSA monkey pulling anything he's not supposed to be pulling without me standing there watching.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #13 March 2, 2003 Southwest's Director Of Corporate Safety, Mr John Andrus is the person who got Cypres approved in the first place and is quite familiar with the situation as are all Southwest agents. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btvr 0 #14 March 4, 2003 . In Atlanta I was singled out for a security check, I thought "oh great". You were singled out? Funny, I know you and you don't appear to be an Arab! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnPolk 0 #15 March 4, 2003 in january i flew from Milwaukee to Phoenix on America West and the screeners didnt even flinch when I put the rig through the scanner. I carried it as a carry on. JOHN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #16 March 4, 2003 I fly 15-20 times a year with a rig and have had relitavely few problems... I was requested / directed once to stow my gear in the cockpit so it would be under the supervision and control of the pilot... When I got off the plane I did a quick inventory in the jetway to be sure nothing was "misplaced" ...everything appeared to have been gone through but nothing was missing... just another curious avaitor I presume... ...great thread, I think from now on I will print out a copy of the pertaining policy and have it handy in case there are questions. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scottjk 0 #17 April 2, 2003 Hi. I'm an airline pilot with one of the US majors and also worked with TSA as a trainer for the new security check points. The problem with traveling with rigs is the fact that on the xray it looks as though Cypres equiped rigs contain all the components of an improvised explosive devise. I worked with the FAA Hazmat crew at Salt Lake International to get an idea of exactly how it looked on the xray as well as how the screeners would react. I've trained screeners on the xray and I can tell you that if a Cypres equiped rig comes through the checkpoint and isn't questioned the screener is not doing his job. The problem isn't having a Cypres on board the aircraft, the problem is that the rig cannot be completely scrutinized to verify that it actually is a Cypres and that no other items are inside the rig, unless you want to blow your reserve. So basically the issue isn't whether the DOT has the Cypres cutter listed as non hazardous but what TSA policy will end up being regarding items that flag as a bomb and are unable to be verified. I'm extremely surprised that checkpoints are actually letting Cypres rigs through. To those of you traveling I would have a back up plan in case you can't get through. I wish I could hold out hope that the USPA and TSA will come to a conclusion that would allow us to carry our rigs on but from a pilot and TSA trainer standpoint I honestly don't see how they can while they still utilize standard xray at the checkpoints. If taking someones word is good enough to identify specific items then why don't we just go back to the old way of doing things. Also, what would have happend if the bomb that brought down the PanAm flight over Scotland had been brought through a security checkpoint. Would the screener have noticed something inside the radio that didn't look right but let it go since it could be easily identified as a radio? See my point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #18 April 2, 2003 They still allow radios, computers, and other electronic devices on board...that both you and I know can still be rigged as a bomb...I have been a Hazmat technician for over 7 years now, worked with ATF on numerous occasions...and know that the measures we have in the airports to this point really only keep the morons from blowing us up...if someone wants to do what they want to do, it will happen given the present security. a rig with a cypres is no more dangerous looking than a laptop, minidisc player, portable DVD player..... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #19 April 2, 2003 QuoteThe airline screeners know exactly what a rig looks like. 99% of the time you will be fine, thanks to the USPA! Just remember to remove your hook knife. I forgot to remove it once and it slipped through security. Oh well! The hook knife might actually be acceptable under the latest Permitted & Prohibited Items list, given that safety razors ARE permitted. The blade in a hook knife is smaller, and is protected by the hook. You may have better luck with a plastic hook knife than a metal one. http://www.tsa.gov/public/interweb/assetlibrary/tsa_ppitems.pdf As a general suggestion, any traveler should print and carry a recent copy of this list. Skydivers should carry: - CYPRES card - SIM or FAR, at least FAR105.43 and maybe the section on Riggers. - Logbook - Membership/license Technically, your reserve must be in date to carry it on since it would reasonably be available as an emergency parachute, not that you would be able to make use of it. But then, I've NEVER been asked for the packing card prior to boarding! By the way: Just because something is listed as permitted does NOT mean you should push the limits or test the system. (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #20 April 2, 2003 QuoteI am extremely hesistant to check my rig anymore, since they are now allowed to go unlock your checked bags and go through them. I don't want some half-literate TSA monkey pulling anything he's not supposed to be pulling without me standing there watching. Funny (or not) you should mention this. A couple friends of mine, let's change their names to Noreen and Matt, (not that they're particularly innocent), went to the South of the Border Boogie a couple weeks ago. After checking their rigs and passing through security, they were paged back to the checkin counter. "Some half-literate TSA monkey" didn't know how to put their rigs back together. The whole thing - main, reserve, freebag, CYPRES - was strewn across the floor. At this point, I'm of the opinion that you are way better off carrying the rig than checking it. At least that way you have the opportunity to tell them what it is, present credentials, etc. Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #21 April 2, 2003 well i'm happy to report that South West at SEA at least the TSA screens your bags right when you walk up to the counter to check in, and they have no issues with you locking them after they've been inspected. in addition they list parachutes and Airtec Cypress as allowable carry ons and were more than happy to print that section of the list (in a nice ticket sized printout) for me to take thru security just in case. the stewardess even joked about it during the pre-flight breif..(SW has this comedy routine thing the aircrew does, and she had asked about my shirt..) "smoking is not allowed on this flight however if you wish to light up we will be happy to offer you a seat on the wing...no the skydiver in row 8 cannot volunteer, so put your hand down..."actually woke up when she said this, i was almost asleep____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 April 2, 2003 Quotesmoking is not allowed on this flight however if you wish to light up we will be happy to offer you a seat on the wing...no the skydiver in row 8 cannot volunteer, so put your hand down..." Nice. Its refreshing to see a sense of humor from the airline industry, especially when it comes to skydivers. Too bad its not this way across the board.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scottjk 0 #23 April 2, 2003 Sorry, even with your background you are missing the point and are completely wrong about a Cypres equiped rig not looking anymore hazardous than a radio or computer. Organic material placed inside an electronic item is fairly easy to detect. What isn't easy to find are the detonators. Have you ever looked at a Cypres equiped rig as it goes through the xray? You are exactly right, no security is 100% but that also isn't the point. If something looks like the PERFECT IED as it comes through the checkpoint that can't be fully scrutinized do you honestly think it is good policy to allow it to pass through? Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of having to check rigs at the ticket counter. I'm just trying to help people understand where the TSA and screeners are coming from. One way for them to allow rigs to be carried on is to FIRST scan them with the CTX or LLL EDS and mark them as non-explosive. Then during the xray checkpoint when the question comes up of what it is, which SHOULD be every time, it will have a security tag stating that it is non-explosive. As with any organization, especially new ones, people may unfortunately find various policies at different airports, like the previous post about SouthWest's policy. As of 3 months ago Cypres rigs were not specifically approved by TSA and they are the ones that decide what goes and what doesn't, not the airlines. With everything on TSA's plate I wouldn't count on having a defined policy anytime in the near future. So some places you may get it on and some you may not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #24 April 2, 2003 Dude- If I was you I would Carry it with me. Our rigs Cost alot of money these days and I would hate for some baggage handler to misplace or loose your rig. Unless of course you have it insured really well. Even then sometimes its hard to replace a rig,Parachute just like the one you had. The Manufacturer may run out of certain colors etc...You never know..so word of Wisdom treat your rig like its your Baby... The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #25 April 2, 2003 QuoteNice. Its refreshing to see a sense of humor from the airline industry, especially when it comes to skydivers. Too bad its not this way across the board. 4 years ago or so, I was flying from either Orange County or San Diego (don't remember which - I was flipping back and forth couple times a week at the time) and as we deplaned the Reno Air pilot saw my skydive jacket and said, "Oh, you shold have told me sooner. I would have taken it a little left over Monterey for you!" Reno flew MD80/90s which are one of the few aircraft with tail stairs like the 727. Too bad I didn't have my rig with me! Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
