can 2 ride 1 chut in emergancy

[freeryde13 0]

please forgive my ignorance on this, but my nearest dz is a few hours away. so when i'm not jumping i'm trying to learn about jumping. i'm at 20 jumps by the way.

my question is in an emergancy, could 2 people land relitivly safely on a chut ment for 1 person. what made me think about this is an incident report about a camera man who jumped with out a parachut and died. was ther annything any one with a parachut could do to help this man? is there a protocal for this type of emergancy?

for instance, if i jump with my wife or very close friend or something like that, and realize for what ever reason nither chut opens, what can i do?

my natural instinct would be to try to help anyone i saw in that situation, even if it ment an injury to myself. but i am smart enough to not try anything if there is no chanceof being able to help, or if trying to help would do more harm than good.

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[Kris 0]

In all honesty, by the time you realize what's going on, you're already at pull-altitude with only 12-24 seconds left until you exchange photons at a very close range with the planet.

Secondly, it's almost guaranteed that the other person wouldn't be able to hold on during the opening shock at terminal.

Not feasible.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Casch 0]

but given altitude, still worth a try eh? IF someone could actually hold on through opening shock, I imagine it would be possible to survive the landing, but a body could be easily broken in such a situation.

[masher 1]

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In all honesty, by the time you realize what's going on, you're already at pull-altitude with only 12-24 seconds left until you exchange photons at a very close range with the planet.

Secondly, it's almost guaranteed that the other person wouldn't be able to hold on during the opening shock at terminal.

Not feasible.

Depends on what height the emergency happened at. I don't really know what emergencies would make you leave the plane or die, but not all of them happen at 3000'.


Re opening shock, I agree with the shock at terminal, but you can hang on for subterminal deployments (Mr Bill?)

Now, assuming you managed to get out and hang on, can you survive the landing? Now I have no idea what a canopies flight characteristics are going to be loaded at between 2-4.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[Kris 0]

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but given altitude, still worth a try eh?

I know this sounds harsh....but if I am in freefall below 2000 feet I have no friends. Nada, zero, zip.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Casch 0]

I totally agree, I'm talking about if there is altitude available ie above 5K

[michaelflying 0]

sounds like point break to me.

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[Casch 0]

Oh you mean that movie with Keano Reeves and Patric Swayze, with that uber realistic skydive scene? What? That isn't an accurate depiction of the skydiving world?

[bch7773 0]

I read this in a book once, but I heard it is possible, but will result in injuries.

The person without a working chute pushes their arms through the other guys side chest straps...(don't know what the correct term for it is... but where your reserve and cutaway handles attach)
then they twist the center chest strap around their wrist, then they cross arms and grab onto their own side chest straps. The person with the chute deploys it, then immediately grabs hold of the other person, and also wraps their legs around them.

the book says the opening shock will dislocate or break both of the chuteless guys arms, and so then the guy with the chute has to hold onto him the entire way down.

I don't know how feasible this really would be, since you wouldn't realize that somebodies main and reserve aren't working until pretty damned low. not to mention if the gear can survive a terminal opening with something like a 2.0+ loading.

and btw, the book I got this outta is called "Worst Case Scenerio". Its actually a pretty fun read, and they claim to have consulted all sorts of experts.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[lazyfrog 0]

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Oh you mean that movie with Keano Reeves and Patric Swayze, with that uber realistic skydive scene? What? That isn't an accurate depiction of the skydiving world?

why uber realistic ??? most of my jumps I fly 2.30 minutes and talk with my friends...

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Fumer tue, péter pue
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ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

[b1jercat 0]

hey don't forget about the guy in good stuff that jumps without wearing his parachute, some how he hangs onto it.

blues

jerry

[jaaska 0]

OK... What about this:

Your in a load where there is a chuteless person onboard. At some point something goes wrong (let's say you have plenty of altitude) and the plane is unlandable but still flies, sort of, well enough (now, what sort of situation would that be, I've got not a glue) so that you and the chuteless person has some time to prepare for Mr. Bill and jump out...

A regular ZP canopy (let's say sabre or similar) with 2-3.0 wingload... Not a nice thing to land...

How about steering towards a body of water and asking the other person to let go / jump at 30-50 feet (ok, hard since with that wingload the speed is somewhat fast) and landing in the water yourself?

[testpilot 0]

OK... What about this:

There are two canopies in my container, you may have my main that I'll cut away and I'll ride my reserve in.

Dave
D830
http://www.skydiving.co.za

[mr2mk1g 10]

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you may have my main that I'll cut away and I'll ride my reserve in.

Yeah, remember bond does it in his last movie. He cuts away the square! (WTF) drogue shute from behind the ice sled, BASE's it then surfs giant ice blocks.

We could do that, no sweat.

[PurpleBadger 0]

I take it your talking about the clip where Greg Gasson jumps out doing a two way with Scott Smith without wearing his rig.

I thought that he had adapted the rig so that he was attached via wire to make sure he didn't lose it. Then disconnected it to climb around and do the stuff that he did.

[poohbeer 0]

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I take it your talking about the clip where Greg Gasson jumps out doing a two way with Scott Smith without wearing his rig.

I thought that he had adapted the rig so that he was attached via wire to make sure he didn't lose it. Then disconnected it to climb around and do the stuff that he did.

There apparantly are 2 types of chuteless jumpers. 1. with the wire.
2. one guy (look op the nick chuteless) that did it withouth any strings.

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Aviatrr 0]

Chances of somebody pulling this off successfully when at terminal are one in a million at best. If two people survive the opening, will the canopy? If the canopy does, will they survive the landing? If the main doesn't survive, will a cutaway and reserve deployment be possible with somebody hanging onto the front of your harness? If so, will the reserve blow up on deployment?

When I did a Mr Bill as the one hanging on, it was very hard to hold on during opening - and the canopy was deployed less than a second after exit from a Caravan going 55knots. The canopy was packed for a long, slow opening. This was the third attempt. The first one, he didn't deploy within the first two seconds due to our stability(or lack thereof), and that was our time limit. After two seconds of freefall, we wouldn't try it, and just turned it into a normal freefall jump. The second try he deployed after about a second, but I just couldn't hang on.

Mike

[AndyMan 7]

I think it's a pretty rare case where a plane takes off fine, and then becomes truely un-landable. People survivie "crash" landings all the time, planes are succesfully put down in fields, in trees, even on highways. Miraculously, people sometimes walk away from these "landings".

The act of putting two people under normal gear is called a "Mister Bill". Its done for fun under certain circumstances, except the second jumper lets go and deploys his own parachute for landing. I don't believe two people have ever succesfully landed one "normal" sport canopy.

Myself, it would take one hell of a plane emergency to even contemplate sharing a sport main canopy. I can't even contemplate what would have to be wrong with the plane for me to do this... Most the mechanical malfunctions I understand - I'd still ride down the plane then try to hang onto someone, or expect somebody I cared for to try to hang off of me.

None of this answers your question, because you weren't asking about plane malfunctions, you're asking about parachute malfunctions.

I think the answer to this is that it may be possible, and even worth while trying if comfronted with someone in freefall without a deployable parachute.

That said, I think the conditions that you've described are unrealistic. By the time your wife has attempted to deploy her main, failed, and tried her emergency procedures, and failed, I would hope that you yourself would already be under a parachute - because you need to have saved your own life first. The altitude that she would be at when attempting her reserve is not one at which that you should be with her.

Secondly, in the conditions that you've described you've got the case where both a main and a reserve system have "failed". In this case, it's a sure guarantee that there's at least a few hundred square feet of nylon released behind her, which will not help her land safely, but will make it virtually impossible for anyone to help her. Parachute systems to not simply "fail" to deploy, "failing" parachutes generally do not leave somebody falling at terminal velocity just waiting to be saved up by a concerned jumper. "Failing" parachutes result in whats generall called "a big ball of shit" trailing behind the jumper.

There are risks in skydiving, and one of those risks is a malfunction that is impossible to solve. This is just one of the risks that we accept when we jump, and our loved ones accept when they jump. Indeed its also a risk we accept when our loved ones jump, too.

In this case, as you've described it - there's absolutely nothing you can do, nor should you even attempt it. If you can't accept the risks, then don't jump.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mr2mk1g 10]

to be honest... no, it aint ever gonna work

Best case scenario though:
Step 1: Make a 2-way, face to face.
Step 2: You cut away your main.
Step 3: Your bud puts their hands through front and rear risers and holds tight., (you can help with high arm grips).
Step 4: You deploy your main (and probably get kicked in the face as your mate is yanked upwards).
Step 5: You deploy your reserve.
Step 6: You pray for your buddy, cos good luck landing like that, (backwards under a probably uneaven unflareable wing)

And your bud better be strong cos I wouldnt like to try and hold my own weight for a 5 min canopy ride.

[winsor 236]

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please forgive my ignorance on this, but my nearest dz is a few hours away. so when i'm not jumping i'm trying to learn about jumping. i'm at 20 jumps by the way.

my question is in an emergancy, could 2 people land relitivly safely on a chut ment for 1 person. what made me think about this is an incident report about a camera man who jumped with out a parachut and died. was ther annything any one with a parachut could do to help this man? is there a protocal for this type of emergancy?

for instance, if i jump with my wife or very close friend or something like that, and realize for what ever reason nither chut opens, what can i do?

my natural instinct would be to try to help anyone i saw in that situation, even if it ment an injury to myself. but i am smart enough to not try anything if there is no chanceof being able to help, or if trying to help would do more harm than good.

It was tried a few years back, unsuccessfully. The chuteless pilot of a doomed airplane tried to do a Mr. Bill with one of the jumpers, but opening shock was a little too brisk for them to hold on to each other.

Judging by people's experience with intentional Mr. Bills, it is possible to pull it off. If I'm jumping one of my more oversized canopies, packed for a soft opening, I'm pretty sure someone that didn't weigh too much could become one with my harness and still be there by the time I cleared my brakes.

If I was jumping one of my 99s, I think our only chance would be to go to (200+ sq. ft.) reserve).

Any way you cut it there's a good chance that one or both of us would require medical attention after arrival back on terra firma, but it beats the hell out of a trip to the morgue.

Aiming for a nearby body of water might limit the damage to that incurred upon opening (torn rotator cuffs or ligaments and what have you), but landing in a handy pile of hay might reduce the likelihood of drowning.

Thus, the short answer to "could it be done safely?" is no.

Can it be survived? Maybe, sort of. It's worth a shot.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[steve1 5]

I think we have all day-dreamed about this kind of jump. They do it all the time on TV, but is there anyway it could be done. I've heard a few stories about Mr. Bill jumps, but still wonder how this is done.

Back in the 70's I knew a guy who used to experiment with different types of jumps. He rigged up a bar fastened to the risers of a round canopy. A static line openned the rig as he jumped out and tried to hang on. Noone could....(as I was told).

I recall reading another story about two Army Air Corps soldiers (in World War II) who had to jump because their plane was going down. They only had one parachute. One guy tried to hang onto his buddy as the chute opened. He couldn't hang on and he fell to his death......So I have my doubts if this can be done.....Steve1

[ifics 0]

It worked on Point Break!! If I remember correctly...

[beej 0]

In April of 1944, Joe Herman was the pilot of a Royal Australian Air Force Halifax on a mission to bomb munition factories at Bochum. After dropping its bombs, Herman's Halifax was struck by enemy fire. Herman ordered his crew to bail out. Before he could grab his parachute, the plane exploded and he was thrown into the air. In mid-air, he collided with John Vivash, the mid-upper gunner, and grabbed onto Vivash's left leg around the same time as Vivash was opening his parachute. The parachute inflated slowly, which helped Herman maintain his grasp on Vivash. The two men came down safely under Vivash's parachute.
http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/amazing.html

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If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)--

[freeflygoddess 0]

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Oh you mean that movie with Keano Reeves and Patric Swayze, with that uber realistic skydive scene? What? That isn't an accurate depiction of the skydiving world?

why uber realistic ??? most of my jumps I fly 2.30 minutes and talk with my friends...

Yeah but don't forget about Dropzone with Wesely Snipes where the cick is hanging from the plane with nothing and lets go as Wesely Snipes dives from the other plane to link up with her and pull. I so want to try that, any takers? JK...Oh yeah and it also happend in Operation Dumbo Drop with Danny Glover holding onto the kid at exit and jumping with him, but I could see that really happening, it is a military round after all...

[Casch 0]

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Yeah but don't forget about Dropzone with Wesely Snipes where the cick is hanging from the plane with nothing and lets go as Wesely Snipes dives from the other plane to link up with her and pull. I so want to try that, any takers?

Actually that could be pretty fun! Have the "no chute" person actually wear a rig, with a modified tandem harness, or just some D rings on the mlw. Try to link up by 5K otherwise deploy separately. I think that could be pretty fun

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