Normandy 0 #1 July 23, 2003 August 2-10, McAlester/Lawton, Oklahoma: World War II Airborne Demonstration Team August Jump School. 50 hours PLF and military-style static line jump training followed by five jumps from an original C-47 used during the Normandy invasion. Program cost is $750 which includes meals and housing. Olive Drab (No camoflage) U.S. Military fatigues, boots, and helmet required for training. WWII uniform required for event participation. We are not WWII re-enactors. Through jump demonstrations and public awareness events, the WWII ADT honors and serves the memory of American Paratroopers who sacrificed their lives to help preserve American freedom during WWII. Please call 918-426-5328 or e-mail ww2adt@intellex.com. Web site: www.wwiiadt.com. Many thanks. Sincerely, Normandy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 July 23, 2003 If I had $750 right now I would be right there. Sounds like a really great way to remember those served in WWII. Especially the paratroopers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #3 July 23, 2003 In before the NO advertising lock ;)I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 July 23, 2003 QuoteWe are not WWII re-enactors. I dunno man, sounds an awful lot like re-enacting to me. Still pretty freekin' cool. Since the $750 doesn't seem to include all the required uniform stuff, can you give us a hint what all that other required gear might cost?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 July 23, 2003 Not really convinced he's advertising. Sounds more like he's just passing along event info. Fine line . . . yeah, yeah.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 July 23, 2003 What about current, active duty static line jumpmaster qualified people? You need any jumpmasters or additional instructors?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #7 July 24, 2003 To be reenactors I would think they would have to be trying to recreate a specific battle or event. From their website it looks like the just do demo jumps with old T10's It is definitely on my list of things to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 July 24, 2003 I dunno man, again, and this is just to me and not to split a lot of fine hairs here 'cause to me it's all the same . . . re-enactors or fantasy camp makes no difference. Ok, so it appears as if -some- folks do go on to make some "Demos" as we normally understand them, but this appears to be the training required to be included on the demo and not the actual demo itself. That said, I wonder what happens when somebody with ZERO jumps shows up? Take a look at this page from their web site.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #9 July 24, 2003 I'm not sure what the requirement is or the difference between a demonstration team and a demo. I jumped into an airshow at the oklahoma airport right after the oklahoma city bombing from a 130 as the B2 did a fly by over the main runway and they detonated pyro to simulate him dropping ordanance. Everyone on that A/C sure as hell didn't have a PRO rating and all we did was attend the pilots briefing before the show and deconflicted with the fast movers. it was fun and the people went ape shit when we landed in front of them."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normandy 0 #10 July 24, 2003 Hi. Thanks very much for replying. Olive drab fatigues or BDU's would run about $50-60. Boots, $35-50. An M-1 helmet with liner, $20. Most if not all of this material can be purchased at a local surplus store on the web. Good sources include: www.uscav.com www.brigadequartermasters.com www.rangerjoes.com Out of respect for the current military, no camoflage is permitted please. Just olive drab. If you want to boot up to the actual WWII uniform, the cost can run anywhere from $250 to $400 depending on the supplier. Sources include: www.atthefront.com www.wwiiimpressions.com www.whatpriceglory.com The WWII uniforms are required for events. The OD fatigues are sufficient for training. I have received a number of e-mails saying that my posting was considered "advertising." Please note that the WWII ADT is a non-profit organization and truly is dedicated to serving veterans and educating the public about the role, state, and status of paratroopers during WWII. This is why the ADT emphasizes that it is not a re-enactment group. Many thanks for your interest. Note that the group has been envited to do a memorial jump over Normandy, next June 6. Please watch the ADT web site for more details. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normandy 0 #11 July 24, 2003 Hi Quade, I guess I opened up a can of worms when I said that the ADT are not re-enactors. First, as for the training, please let me point out that a fair number of the ADT are prior miliary service jumpers or trained certified civillian jumpers. The training cadre are comprised former Special Forces, etc., and they take jumping seriously. The program that they have put together is according to the Ft. Benning Military Jump School Program, Columbus, GA, minus the details that have nothing to do with jumping. That's why the ADT program is only a week. Ft. Benning's is three. As for the point about re-enactors, I am a vet. I take a lot of pride in the uniform that I wore and the commitment that I made--and I can still exceed Fort Benning's PT standards for a paratrooper. For myself personally, I would have trouble belonging to a re-enacting group, because the one thing that seperates re-enactments from the real deal is that in the real deal some people don't come home. I'm glad that there are living history groups active today and I think that they can provide a valuable service in educating the public about our past. Some groups just wouldn't be my cup of tea. But, I encourage you to read or rent the video for Band Of Brothers. I can only hope that you would conclude that these young men deserve to be memorialized and remembered in the way that the ADT is attempting to do. Every jump the ADT makes, every person that an ADT member talks to at an event is an opportunity to educate the public about the sacrifices made by others in the past for us here today. Many thanks for hearing me out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 July 24, 2003 Hi and sorry if anything I said offended you or anyone else. I think the main issue I had is a total lack of understanding about what the program is about. Unfortunately the web site didn't help me out very much. Even after your explanation, I'm still not completely sure I understand it. Is this training and demo team open to -anyone- including first time jumpers or is it only open to ex-military or is it open to PRO Rated jumpers? Do they do demos for film projects as well? I'm just confused by the entire thing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normandy 0 #14 July 24, 2003 Hi Lou, I'm sorry that I couldn't reply last night. Please contact the ADT at 918-426-5328 or 918-424-4673. Please ask for 1st Sgt. Wolf. You can also e-mail him at ww2adt@intellex.com. I'm sure that he would welcome hearing from you. Also, please check out the American Military Parachute Association web site at www.ampa.ws. You cand find out more about the ADT (www.wwiiadt.com) there. Many thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normandy 0 #15 July 24, 2003 Hi Quade, Nothing you said was offensive, and I apologize if my reply made it seem like it was. I'll try to be more specific. Training: The training is open to anyone, first time or professional jumpers. As you know, military shutes are different from civillian shutes, and demo jumps are done with equipment. The training is designed so that first timer or experienced jumper can adapt the necessary methods and safety precautions specific to this type of jumping. The Purpose Of The ADT Itself: Please understand that the organization is still growing and still taking shape. But, the purpose is what I said before: to memorialize and educate the public about those paratroopers who during WWII sacrificed themselves to help preserve American, and I would argue world, freedom. The ADT is a "living history" organization. So far it has appeared at air shows and some veterans reunions. Next year it has been invited to perform a memorial jump over Normandy for the 60th anniversary of D-Day. (My personal hope is that the ADT might be invited to participate in the opening of the WWII monument next year in Washington D.C.) As the organization expands and appears at a broader scope of events, the purpose will still be to display to the public what being a paratrooper was actually about during WWII, the types of equipment used, the challenges that they faced, etc. Perhaps the photos on the web site don't indicate this very well, but again, the ADT is still growing and with more events I think that you may see photos that will give you a deeper sense of how the ADT's mission is being carried out. Re-enactment Groups: You sound like a serious person and so am I. In my comments yesterday I tried to make sure that I did not offend any possible military re-enactors out there. But, the ADT are parachutists first and foremost. Parachuting is essential to the ADT's overall program to demonstrate to the public what the Airborne during WWII was all about. (Without actually jumping, I'm sure you'll agree that the ADT's outreach to the public wouldn't have as much of an effect.) Speaking strictly for myself--and I am sure that many re-enactors will agree with me on this point--the problem that I do find with some re-enactors is that they either have not been properly trained in the skills that they are supposed to be demonstrating to the public or they simply do not physically look the part. I saw one web site for one re-enactment group (thankfully they were wearing foreign military uniforms) where the members were so physically out of shape that any possibility of authenticity was lost. That to me is a disgrace to the people that actually had to serve in those uniforms and it demonstrates nothing realistic or memorable to the public. It is tantamount to "playing army." That's not what the ADT is all about (hence my comments yesterday about still being able to exceed the physical requirements for a current paratrooper.) I hope that I eliminated some confusion for you, and I know that the ADT would welcome your participation. Many thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #16 July 24, 2003 seems great, unfortunately cann t come to the US for it... ---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normandy 0 #17 July 24, 2003 Hi Beowulf, Re the picture on the WWII ADT web site of the PLF stand please let me explain. PLF (personal landing fall) practice, I hope you will agree is essential, esspecially if you are a beginner and especially if you are going to be jumping eventually with equipment. The PLF stand that you saw a picture of may appear basic but it works. The proof is in the final result: trained jumpers that know how to land safely. The title, "The Pit of Woe"? Well, no one likes endless PLF practice especially when it gets hot, so it was meant to be tongue and cheek. The PLF stand that you saw gets the job done, and that's what counts. I really appreciate your comments, and if the WWII ADT is something that you might be interested in participating in, I hope that you'll look into it further. Many thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #18 July 24, 2003 I have been wanting to jump vintage gear and will most likely jump a Para Commander soon. I will keep checking your website and make plans to participate in one of your training camps. The August one is too soon for my current budget. I mostly just want to see how well I stand up to that type of training and landing the old parachutes. I believe that I would have been a skydiver no matter what type of equipment was available and would like to prove that to myself. I currently have 232 jumps on modern gear. I haven't PLF'ed any landings, but I do understand how it works and look forward to making use of it in your camps. The most valuable things in life don't come easy, you have to work for them. I certainly don't expect your camp to be easy and would be dissappointed if it were easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #19 July 24, 2003 Didn't I meet you at the OK City demo last year? I'm with the Liberty Parachute Team... I think we stayed at the same hotel. Cool group...Neat demo! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #20 July 24, 2003 Thanks for your responce and further explanation. How many jumps do you have? Sport? Military? Round? Square?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normandy 0 #21 July 24, 2003 Hi Quade, I was about to reply something to the effect of it's not about the numbers. But, then I saw on your profile that you have over 1500 jumps. Feeling especially humbled, I will fill out my profile for you later. My only interest is Military and I am only a beginner. In the meantime, please accept my sincerest respect. Many thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #22 July 24, 2003 Don't be too impressed with my jump numbers. I know a few people with 10 times as many and I don't have any on rounds. I think just the thought of the landing alone is enough to make my left knee start to hurt. I am, however a PRO rated jumper and understand a couple of things (but certainly not all) about doing demonstration jumps. I'm still very confused how the group goes about getting approval for anyone, such as yourself with minimal parachuting experience, to be included on the demonstration jumps. The static line training I -completely- understand, but it's the demo jumps that have me stumped. Generally speaking, in order to do any sort of demonstration jump in the U.S. a jumper would need to have a D License from the USPA (1) so as to get the approval and co-operation of the FAA. You can read about the qualifications for a D License HERE. In the very near future the requirements for the D License are going to go up to a minimum of 500 jumps.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #23 July 24, 2003 that's not technically true, Paul. There are plenty of active duty units from here that get tasked to do what we both consider to be high-level demos. What we are talking about in terms of the group in question basically mirrors one of those open-field demos. They are not particulary difficult, assuming they have some fully qualified Master Parachutists doing the jumpmastering. That said, there are a LOT of us who meet all of those qualifications here on the boards, either posting regularly or just lurking. I would be interested in talking to some of the group's cadre. Chuck "I have a lot of pretty badges" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 July 24, 2003 And as a military unit, I'd understand it, but this seems to be a civilian organization.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #25 July 25, 2003 QuoteI have been wanting to jump vintage gear and will most likely jump a Para Commander soon. I will keep checking your website and make plans to participate in one of your training camps. Please note - there is a hugh difference jumping a T-10 static line with military gear and jumping Para Commander......--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
