lazyfrog 0 #26 July 18, 2003 QuoteQuotesomething like that... seen real close passes between skydivers and porters... but looks real nice on the VDO... :-) I know of a Porter / jumper collision for real. Jumper got lucky. Pilot got lucky. ************ both have to be prudent enough and aware of what is happening...---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skidyver11074 0 #27 July 18, 2003 I recall a few years back in No Cal. King Air Floater on a formation load big way. Freaky thing but if I remember correctly there was a slight stall possibly on the exit, but nonetheless jumper hit the tail with the back of his rig. Dented the aircraft. Was historically a helmet-less jumper. He bought a full face after that. Again, it's a rare occurence.Jill Scheidel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #28 July 18, 2003 QuoteI recall a few years back in No Cal. King Air Floater on a formation load big way. Freaky thing but if I remember correctly there was a slight stall possibly on the exit, but nonetheless jumper hit the tail with the back of his rig. Dented the aircraft. Was historically a helmet-less jumper. He bought a full face after that. Again, it's a rare occurence. Yah, but I think that may have been a Twin Otter. It was a big way and the horizontal hit him square in the back pack and drug him down for about 3K feet. Then he rolled off. If I remember the story correctly.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #29 July 18, 2003 Quote2. Jumper exited leaving large dent in horizontal stab with the back of his hard helmet. Jump went as planned, but after he landed, he had a bad headache an no memory of making the jump. Went to hospital and was diagnosed with concussion. Ya, and the next day, flygurl picked him up from the hospital and brought him right back to the DZ. He was pointing at the dent in the tail and bragging about that's where his head hit Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #30 July 18, 2003 Not to be a dumbass here but with a wingsuit (i know you aren't going to be jumping one of those anytime soon) you can very very easily hit the tail if you aren't careful... If your body position is such that you are dearched and you hit the prop blast it actually gives you a fair amount of lift. On a different note, I did a negative g exit out of an otter once video I wasn't extremely close to the horiz stabilizer but much closer than if I had just jumped out.. you can see it in the video. King airs scare me.. i've only done wingsuits out of them but it just seems like the tail is so close and so low... Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #31 July 18, 2003 King Airs were never designed to fly skydivers. They were just adapted to it. Twin Otters, on the other hand, were origianlly designed with skydiving (paratroopers, smoke jumpers) in mind.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #32 July 18, 2003 Sixty years ago the (British) Royal Air Force figured out how to avoid tail strikes on DC-3 airplanes. Unfortunately, skydivers need to re-learn this lesson every few years. The problem with low-tail airplanes like DC-3, early King Air, Twin Bonanza, Cessna 206, etc is that the tail is rather low. Not a problem except if the airplane is climbing, which puts the tail even lower. We have only heard of two tail strikes on Twin Bonanzas, both (Cheryl Stearns and Bev Watson) style jumpers who exited while the plane was climbing. The easy way to avoid tail strikes is to wait until the plane is stabilized in jump configuration: power reduced, flaps down, green light on, etc. Then do a normal exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curtismelaniej 0 #33 July 18, 2003 A static-line student once struck the tail of my Dad's Cessna 175-- what we think happened is that as he catapulted himself up and back off the wheel/strut-- the plane may have hit some turbulence or something, causing the strike. (We have tried since then to jump off the wheel and touch the tail with our hands, and it's proven very difficult-- that's why we're deducing that some other force, like turbulence, was involved.) The student was fine and didn't even realize that he'd hit anything-- however, the plane had nearly $7,000 damage, and my Dad came very close to ditching it. __________________________________________________________ http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/teams/EXCEL/basic_camp.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #34 July 19, 2003 I'm not sure if this counts or not but when i was in Empuria last Christmas, i noticed something in the skyvan. There was a RW 8way leaving just before we were, on the exit the group seemed to move over to the left, as i looked i noticed a girl in the group just missed a handle/lever on the left hand side (from where i was looking) about half way, i don't know what the handle/lever was but it looked possible to get snagged on it. Btw i was looking at a casa tailgate (in the gallery under exits) to see if there was anything similar but to no avail. Anyone noticed this ? or is this maybe a mod ? -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #35 July 20, 2003 With a CASA, there is a thing called "CASA arm" from being a floater on the edge. People step off, spread their arms and smack one on the side of the a/c. For a King Air, Otter, or any side-door a/c, if you don't exit all the way - you can whack legs, ankles, arms, etc on the tail side of the door. Whacking ankles on the tail side of the door on DC-3s was pretty common. When they had the Connie at the convention, they had a pad on the tail-side of the door for that reason. Seen people hit the tail on a King Air before, but not often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #36 July 21, 2003 Thought it was kinda hard. Then on my last jump on 15/7 (my third or fourth solo jump, I decided to jump out sideways as it seemed fun. Hit right ankle at door. Noticed small impact but thought it was in my mind only, til I saw a bruise this morning :). Jumped from a Nomad. As far as hitting the tail, the physics of a normal exit would pretty much ensure that the risk is very low indeed. Looked good on video though Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #37 July 21, 2003 Oh no Hollywood! Are you talking about me, I still have the pictures of the flap with my ass cheek prints in it if anybody wants to see them. The pic's of course!!!!!!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #38 July 21, 2003 QuoteAre you talking about me See, I was nice about it. I mentioned no names or the scene where the little white haired guy chased you around the DZ. I believe the pilot had a few choice words, too. Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #39 July 21, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. In the first two incidents, it was widely agreed that the pilot did not put the a/c in the proper attitude prior to turning on the green light. A King Air needs to have flaps down on jump run, which enables the pilot to pitch the nose down, (and the tail up), while still maintaining altitude. We jump a King Air at our DZ. I was warned after my 1st or 2nd AFF not to Jump up after the JM's realized from my unintentionally strong exits that I had the potential to hit the tail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #40 July 21, 2003 They're right. Ask Merriah about hitting the tail if you don't already know about it....... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyPsycho 0 #41 July 21, 2003 i left a k-air to vid some crw, and everyoone later told me we scared the shit outta them, just missing the tail by inches......... someone said somethin later in this thread bout pitchin a porter over or somethin, ill have to seee if i can dig up an old pic from like 8 years ago at x-keys. i used to stay to go out last and xxxxx would dive the porter down and id headdown with him while we gave each other the finger, i think i have a pic of his mug birdin me ......you can seee him thru the canopy clearly grinning before he would carve under me..........excellent pilot. i went back and took out his name so the pilot and fun nazis here wouldnt whine bout what we did............ _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #42 July 22, 2003 When launching a chunk(4way-8way) out of an Otter the front floater does jump up and out! You wouldn't want to do this out of any plane with a low tail though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #43 July 22, 2003 Fatality from last year: Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/10/2002 Skydive Suffolk, VA AIR 41 5000 N/N Description: Lessons: USPA Description: This jumper was practicing a canopy formation jump with two other jumpers. He exited the King Air aircraft from 4,500 feet with an aggressive head-high exit and struck the horizontal stabilizer. He was then seen falling back-to-earth all the way to impact. Neither parachute was deployed before he reached the ground. USPA Conclusions:This jumper exited with a hard push up and toward the back of the door, which possibly caused the back of his head to strike the horizontal stabilzier. He was apparently at least knocked unconcious at that moment, if not killed. Either way, he struck the ground without deploying a parachute. The jumper was not wearing a helmet or an AAD, either of which may have changed the outcome of this accident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #44 July 23, 2003 Quotejust wondering about collisions whilst exiting the craft, if any do happen. This is probably not a normal question, but, i'm really abnormal. You are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. Quotei'm really abnormal. no one here is.....we jump out of planes for fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikkey 0 #45 July 23, 2003 QuoteYou are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. We had a visiting Japanese jumper die in Western Australia this year when he hit the tail of the Caravan on exit. Check the incident forum for more detail. I agree that it is not an issue during AFF, however as soon as you start jumping on your own you have to be aware of certain issues, especially if you are lightly build.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #46 July 23, 2003 Thanks. I'm gonna go look that up. I'm fairly light, 125lbs, so apparently the article pertains, somewhat at least, to me. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #47 July 23, 2003 QuoteQuoteYou are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. We had a visiting Japanese jumper die in Western Australia this year when he hit the tail of the Caravan on exit. Check the incident forum for more detail. I agree that it is not an issue during AFF, however as soon as you start jumping on your own you have to be aware of certain issues, especially if you are lightly build. Do you know how I could find that thread? thx! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikkey 0 #48 July 23, 2003 QuoteDo you know how I could find that thread? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=413585 Read the whole thread there are bits of useful information "spread" in it. Note that there is not really much reason to worry too much. There need to be a number of factors before you would hit the tail. Tip: Try using the search function - it is easy. Had you searched the incident forum with "Japanese" the thread would have come up right away.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #49 July 23, 2003 we have a twin bonanza at our dz and it is one of the first things you get told at the dz is that if you are on the outside of the plane you have to leave from the bar under the door because if you jump from the door frame you will hit the tail... exiting it as rear rear floater with three peole on the bar under the dorr though still give plenty of clearance and diving from the back of the wing isn't a problem either... i rather like diving from the wing... just have to be sure to stay aft and not get to forward and stall the plane.... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #50 July 23, 2003 QuoteQuotejust wondering about collisions whilst exiting the craft, if any do happen. This is probably not a normal question, but, i'm really abnormal. You are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. Quotei'm really abnormal. Happened at Cross-Keys on the 2 point 124 way attempt two weeks ago. Raoul (cameraguy) hit his head on the horizontal stab of the right rear trail Caravan. Left quite a large dent in the LE of the stab. Raoul was bruised and shaken up, but OK.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rehmwa 2 #40 July 21, 2003 They're right. Ask Merriah about hitting the tail if you don't already know about it....... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #41 July 21, 2003 i left a k-air to vid some crw, and everyoone later told me we scared the shit outta them, just missing the tail by inches......... someone said somethin later in this thread bout pitchin a porter over or somethin, ill have to seee if i can dig up an old pic from like 8 years ago at x-keys. i used to stay to go out last and xxxxx would dive the porter down and id headdown with him while we gave each other the finger, i think i have a pic of his mug birdin me ......you can seee him thru the canopy clearly grinning before he would carve under me..........excellent pilot. i went back and took out his name so the pilot and fun nazis here wouldnt whine bout what we did............ _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #42 July 22, 2003 When launching a chunk(4way-8way) out of an Otter the front floater does jump up and out! You wouldn't want to do this out of any plane with a low tail though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #43 July 22, 2003 Fatality from last year: Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/10/2002 Skydive Suffolk, VA AIR 41 5000 N/N Description: Lessons: USPA Description: This jumper was practicing a canopy formation jump with two other jumpers. He exited the King Air aircraft from 4,500 feet with an aggressive head-high exit and struck the horizontal stabilizer. He was then seen falling back-to-earth all the way to impact. Neither parachute was deployed before he reached the ground. USPA Conclusions:This jumper exited with a hard push up and toward the back of the door, which possibly caused the back of his head to strike the horizontal stabilzier. He was apparently at least knocked unconcious at that moment, if not killed. Either way, he struck the ground without deploying a parachute. The jumper was not wearing a helmet or an AAD, either of which may have changed the outcome of this accident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #44 July 23, 2003 Quotejust wondering about collisions whilst exiting the craft, if any do happen. This is probably not a normal question, but, i'm really abnormal. You are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. Quotei'm really abnormal. no one here is.....we jump out of planes for fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #45 July 23, 2003 QuoteYou are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. We had a visiting Japanese jumper die in Western Australia this year when he hit the tail of the Caravan on exit. Check the incident forum for more detail. I agree that it is not an issue during AFF, however as soon as you start jumping on your own you have to be aware of certain issues, especially if you are lightly build.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #46 July 23, 2003 Thanks. I'm gonna go look that up. I'm fairly light, 125lbs, so apparently the article pertains, somewhat at least, to me. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #47 July 23, 2003 QuoteQuoteYou are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. We had a visiting Japanese jumper die in Western Australia this year when he hit the tail of the Caravan on exit. Check the incident forum for more detail. I agree that it is not an issue during AFF, however as soon as you start jumping on your own you have to be aware of certain issues, especially if you are lightly build. Do you know how I could find that thread? thx! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #48 July 23, 2003 QuoteDo you know how I could find that thread? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=413585 Read the whole thread there are bits of useful information "spread" in it. Note that there is not really much reason to worry too much. There need to be a number of factors before you would hit the tail. Tip: Try using the search function - it is easy. Had you searched the incident forum with "Japanese" the thread would have come up right away.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #49 July 23, 2003 we have a twin bonanza at our dz and it is one of the first things you get told at the dz is that if you are on the outside of the plane you have to leave from the bar under the door because if you jump from the door frame you will hit the tail... exiting it as rear rear floater with three peole on the bar under the dorr though still give plenty of clearance and diving from the back of the wing isn't a problem either... i rather like diving from the wing... just have to be sure to stay aft and not get to forward and stall the plane.... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #50 July 23, 2003 QuoteQuotejust wondering about collisions whilst exiting the craft, if any do happen. This is probably not a normal question, but, i'm really abnormal. You are jumping a Caravan. I've never heard of a tail stike in one. And while you are doing aff it shouldn't be any trouble. Quotei'm really abnormal. Happened at Cross-Keys on the 2 point 124 way attempt two weeks ago. Raoul (cameraguy) hit his head on the horizontal stab of the right rear trail Caravan. Left quite a large dent in the LE of the stab. Raoul was bruised and shaken up, but OK.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
