poohbeer 0 #1 September 29, 2003 Can someone explain what a hand deploy is? Is it the same as BOC? I'm asking cause I wanted to visit another jumpzone for a small boogie and the rental gear they have is with hand deploy. I was trained with ripcord and curently have 23 jumps with that ripcord but was planning on spending my jumping time between the 2 dropzones. So, Is going to handdeploy and back to ripcord doable with some groundpractice pulls and instruction or is it a definit no go? Switching to handdeploy permanantly is not possible as ALL rental rigs are equiped with ripcords on the first dropzone. ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #2 September 29, 2003 If you learn how to use throwout PC you can still use ripcord, just dont throw it away:) Using throwoutPC requires stable deployment position and proper technics. You should consult with your instructor if you are ready for that. Safe Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #3 September 29, 2003 QuoteIf you learn how to use throwout PC you can still use ripcord, just dont throw it away:) Well, it's a little more complex than that... Switching between deployment systems is never a good idea - and has killed world champions before. Hand deploy systems could be BOC, ROL or pullout. (Bellybands are gone.) Throwing the ripcord away is purely a cost issue. Hanging onto your pilot chute may kill you. both are well within the realm of possibility. The ripcord and the hand deploy system will be on different points of the rig, so you'll need to find it first, then do the right thing with it next. Borrowed gear kills. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 September 29, 2003 The first question is he ready for throwout PC or not. Other question to know that rig you use. I agree your life might depend on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #5 September 29, 2003 QuoteCan someone explain what a hand deploy is? Is it the same as BOC ?Quote Ripcord...is the evolutionary predecessor.... whereby a cable with pins,,, (often 2 3 or 4 pins ) is attached to the "ripcord" and is used to intitiate deployment. When the handle is pulled,, the pins extract from either closing loops,,, or earlier on,, metal cones,, and ALLOW the pack to open..... A spring loaded pilot chute,, ( MA 1 for instance) then leaves from inside the container drawing the bridle and dbag from the pack tray..... "pilot chute hesitation" was a real thing back then,, since ocassionally the P. chute could get hung up in the burble,, or otherwise,,"stick" in the s- folded sleeve, ( which preceeded the D bag).. Hand Deployed pilot Chutes,, may be Stowed in a pouch which could be located in a few different places on the rig..( years ago i knew a guy who had a pouch ON the main lift web of his rig!!! it worked fine ) For instance,,, early on, the H D . was stowed on the front,, in a "belly band" pouch.. I think the idea was to keep the handle in front and in sight... BUT.. a twist of the webbing strap which carried the pouch WOULD result in a Pilot Chute In Tow,,, since the bridle also would twist,, and remain locked to the belly band...( I did that Once,,, wouldn't want to do it again .(When manufacturers adopted the H. D. ( initially developed by Bill Booth I believe). the main containers evolved to Single Pin closure...) Then a switch was made,, to the Legstrap pouch... The bridle velcroed from the closing pin down the bottom edge of the container and into a spandex or fabric pouch on the cheek of the right legstrap.... No more twisted belly bands,,,, although a legstrap could still be inadvertantly twisted ,, if a jumper was not careful.....The Pull Out,, was a sytem developed by Jump Shack for it's Racer container and basically stowed the fabric pilot chute INSIDE the container,, rather than in a remote pouch... As a jumper puller the P. C. handle,, He/She literally extracted the pin as well....The BOC.. ( bottom of container) was the next logical location for the pilot chute...It lessened the amount of bridle exposed to the airstream during freefall,,, It eliminated the impact of any twisted harness component,, and since we we no longer "seeing" our main handle anyway,,, it made "feel" an important part of our deployment sequence... so the steps were. Ripcord with multiple pins,, locking the container closed (spring loaded MAIN pilot chute,,, just like todays reserves) hand deploy, on the front hand deploy on the rear,, (legstrap) hand deploy IN the container hand deploy on the rear, (but in a pouch on the bottom of the container,, As for switching back and forth between the two.... be careful.. correct practice and diligence is needed IF you go that route. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poohbeer 0 #6 September 29, 2003 Mmm, not a good idea if I hear you folks. So much for the visiting 2 dropzones strategie. thanks for the advice! ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #7 September 29, 2003 QuoteSwitching to handdeploy permanantly is not possible as ALL rental rigs are equiped with ripcords on the first dropzone. If you can get a PC maybe they can install it in your rented gear, ask them, somebody at the DZ should have an extra PC and can lend it until you get your own gear. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #8 September 29, 2003 Tell your first dropzone to "get with the 1980s!" Most Canadian DZs converted to hand-deploy pilotchutes - for students - during the mid-1980s. During the 1990s, most Canadian DZs shifted the pilotchutes on their student rigs to the bottom of container (BOC). Since bouncing back and forth between different deployment systems is a back habit ..... Your wisest move - considering your experience - would be to purchase your own rig over the winter. Just buy a rig with a BOC and only do the conversion once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #9 September 29, 2003 QuoteThe first question is he ready for throwout PC or not. Ignoring the changing equipment issue, what does this mean? I, and many others started out on BOC right from jump 1. What's to get ready for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #10 September 29, 2003 E.g. Ive started with ripcord opening...... going to throwout PC was a separate step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #11 September 30, 2003 At the small DZ that I started at we had military gear with square mains and round reserves....ripcords and SOS cutaway systems. When it came time to change, the DZO himself (also an Instrucor and S&TA) took over an hour retraining me on my newly purchased gear that was BOC and both red and silver handles. My very first jump on that gear scared my instructor at the time as I took a 30 second delay before deploying. He thought (as he watched from the plane) that I'd forgotten where the pc handle was! Changing deployment systems is serious business. If you start on ripcord, stay there until you are ready to change permanently to another system...be it BOC, ROL, or pull out. As others have said before in this thread...changing systems HAS killed...even some very highly experienced skygods. (and I mean skygods in the most positive and respectful sense). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #12 September 30, 2003 Hi, Ask your instructor if you're even allowed to switch. In Holland you need your A to switch from ripcord to handdeploy, if you weren't trained on it from the get-go (AFF students are trained BOC, usually). Even if you can, switching back and forth may not be allowed; may be hazardous at worst and may cost you a bunch of ripcords... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #13 September 30, 2003 I completely agree that changing systems is an issue. He posted 2 things though. The second being changing systems. The first was "is he ready for throwout PC or not". I'm not questioning the risk of changing systems. I was wondering, leaving changing systems out of the equation, what it takes to be "ready for throwout PC or not". The post lead me to believe that he thought people should start out with another method until they are ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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poohbeer 0 #6 September 29, 2003 Mmm, not a good idea if I hear you folks. So much for the visiting 2 dropzones strategie. thanks for the advice! ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #7 September 29, 2003 QuoteSwitching to handdeploy permanantly is not possible as ALL rental rigs are equiped with ripcords on the first dropzone. If you can get a PC maybe they can install it in your rented gear, ask them, somebody at the DZ should have an extra PC and can lend it until you get your own gear. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 September 29, 2003 Tell your first dropzone to "get with the 1980s!" Most Canadian DZs converted to hand-deploy pilotchutes - for students - during the mid-1980s. During the 1990s, most Canadian DZs shifted the pilotchutes on their student rigs to the bottom of container (BOC). Since bouncing back and forth between different deployment systems is a back habit ..... Your wisest move - considering your experience - would be to purchase your own rig over the winter. Just buy a rig with a BOC and only do the conversion once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 September 29, 2003 QuoteThe first question is he ready for throwout PC or not. Ignoring the changing equipment issue, what does this mean? I, and many others started out on BOC right from jump 1. What's to get ready for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #10 September 29, 2003 E.g. Ive started with ripcord opening...... going to throwout PC was a separate step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #11 September 30, 2003 At the small DZ that I started at we had military gear with square mains and round reserves....ripcords and SOS cutaway systems. When it came time to change, the DZO himself (also an Instrucor and S&TA) took over an hour retraining me on my newly purchased gear that was BOC and both red and silver handles. My very first jump on that gear scared my instructor at the time as I took a 30 second delay before deploying. He thought (as he watched from the plane) that I'd forgotten where the pc handle was! Changing deployment systems is serious business. If you start on ripcord, stay there until you are ready to change permanently to another system...be it BOC, ROL, or pull out. As others have said before in this thread...changing systems HAS killed...even some very highly experienced skygods. (and I mean skygods in the most positive and respectful sense). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #12 September 30, 2003 Hi, Ask your instructor if you're even allowed to switch. In Holland you need your A to switch from ripcord to handdeploy, if you weren't trained on it from the get-go (AFF students are trained BOC, usually). Even if you can, switching back and forth may not be allowed; may be hazardous at worst and may cost you a bunch of ripcords... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #13 September 30, 2003 I completely agree that changing systems is an issue. He posted 2 things though. The second being changing systems. The first was "is he ready for throwout PC or not". I'm not questioning the risk of changing systems. I was wondering, leaving changing systems out of the equation, what it takes to be "ready for throwout PC or not". The post lead me to believe that he thought people should start out with another method until they are ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
