Divingdude 1 #1 September 23, 2003 Using BOC-mounted throw-out PCs on student gear is not unusual for AFF. (A secondary JM handle is added that releases two sides of the PC pouch when pulled.) Now, assume that you want to train students using JAD. How do you go about arranging for a realistic "Throw-out practice throw"? I don't want to do the conventional ripcord thing where the student is trained to hang on to the handle. I want the student to actually practice a good throw. Granted, the old ripcords get thrown all over the DZ at times, but we cannot actually *plan* on throwing a dummy PC away on every jump. Any good solutions out there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 September 23, 2003 We drill throws in on the ground during training by actually putting a PC in a BOC and having the student throw it about 20 times while doing the emergency drill's. Never had an issue in the air yet if the student was trained well on the ground.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divingdude 1 #3 September 23, 2003 Sorry if I wasn't clear in my first post. I mean for the first few jumps when the JM releases the PC out the door in true JAD-fashion. If the student gear is equipped with a spring-loaded PC, a standard PRCP is fine, but I want the student to do a practice *throw* rather than a pull. I agree that having the student throw a real PC on the ground is the way to go there, but what do they do *in the air* on those first few jumps when they are not actually activating the parachute themselves? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #4 September 23, 2003 QuoteSorry if I wasn't clear in my first post. I mean for the first few jumps when the JM releases the PC out the door in true JAD-fashion. If the student gear is equipped with a spring-loaded PC, a standard PRCP is fine, but I want the student to do a practice *throw* rather than a pull. I agree that having the student throw a real PC on the ground is the way to go there, but what do they do *in the air* on those first few jumps when they are not actually activating the parachute themselves? Get some really cheap tube socks, tie a knot in one end to simulate the hackey handle, and stick it in the pouch. Make sure the sock isn't so big that it's difficult to extract from the BOC pouch. A cheaper (but somewhat less realistic) dummy PC is just a rolled up piece of newspaper. Both are plenty easy for the JM to see. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #5 September 23, 2003 There are two ways for the student to practice pulling while doing JAD/IAD/static-line jumps. The first method involves a rolled up newspaper stuffed into the BOC pouch. The trick here is making the newspaper fat enough that it does not fall out before the student can grab it. The second option involves sewing up some fancy dummy pilotchutes using parapack and foam rubber. Sew a regular pilotchute handle on one end and a half-meter of bungee cord on the other end. Attach the bungee cord to the harness with a rubber band so you do not lose the dummy pilotchute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #6 September 23, 2003 we use the rolled up newspaper method at our dz, works great! the instructor can watch to make sure the student gets to it with a stable body position and then decide when they are ready for their first real pull..."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #7 September 23, 2003 QuoteSew a regular pilotchute handle on one end and a half-meter of bungee cord on the other end. Attach the bungee cord to the harness with a rubber band so you do not lose the dummy pilotchute. I guess I'd have to see this one, because I'm visuallizing something pretty scary (attached dummy PC trailing behind them where it could entangle the reserve in the event of a mal) Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #8 September 23, 2003 If the student performs badly, do you roll the newspaper up again, take the students nose and put it on the pilot chute, and say "bad student, bad student!!!" while striking the student on the head with the paper? I've never heard of that method, but it makes sense!! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #9 September 23, 2003 I learned via the SL program with throwouts. We'd make up fake "pilot chutes" out of WDI material and just throw them. The stuff lands on the ground, quickly bleaches white and disintegrates after a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #10 September 23, 2003 Bill is close on this one. Take about three feet of WDI material, fold it in half then take some good old duck tape and make a "handle" by taping up a ball over the folded WDI. One problem you can run into for boc is if the bag has left the container the bottom flap can/will collapse some and be more difficult to locate the practice pilot chute however, IMHO that is MUCH better than a "fake" practice pull. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #11 September 24, 2003 QuoteOne problem you can run into for boc is if the bag has left the container the bottom flap can/will collapse some and be more difficult to locate the practice pilot chute however, IMHO that is MUCH better than a "fake" practice pull. This has been a topic of much discussion in our little club. We just ordered a new rig and it has a small pocket for the practice pull material (we use rolled up newspapers) right next to the back pad. We are hoping that this will make it easier for people to locate by not moving around as much. Murray-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 1 #12 September 24, 2003 Here's thought Rob. What if the student doesn't let go of the bungee equiped RC has an unstable exit while the main deploys and things get exciting ? Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #13 September 24, 2003 What manufacturer is doing this for you. Any rigger could sew a pocket in that location. It would be closer to actual but...... One AFF Cat D Saturday, student I have not jumped with before, ppct signal and he grabs his leg strap, rol pouch (converted rig), my altimeter, my hand, everything but his PC,never touched the PC without me placing his hand on it. Then wondered why I did not give him a release????? Nothing is perfect, but I like your idea. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #14 September 24, 2003 QuoteWhat manufacturer is doing this for you.... Nothing is perfect, but I like your idea. Blues, J.E. Al MacDonald, the owner of Flying High Manufacturing Inc., the builder of the Sidewinder TSO'd container did this for us after I explained the problem and asked him if he could come up with a way to put a practice pull holder closer to the backpad where it wouldn't move as much as the BOC pouch. It should be easy to do on nearly any student rig. Will let everyone know how it works.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divingdude 1 #15 September 24, 2003 Ahh, some pretty interesting ideas here. First of all, the dropzone that I have in mind makes about 6-700 student jumps a year where they would be doing these practice throw-out throws. I'm afraid we wouldn't win the "Friendliest neighbor award" if we threw that much newspaper around. What is this WDI material? Could someone please spell out the acronym for us non-English speakers. I was hoping someone had come up with a solid solution that means that *nothing* gets thrown away but rather stays with the student. The PC-handle attached with a bungee cord was something that I had been toying with in my mind, but it's pretty easy to come up with all sorts of scary scenarios around that. Any feedback from you guys who have actually seen this being used? How long would you make the cord? And what if they don't let go---any experience with such a scenario? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 September 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteSew a regular pilotchute handle on one end and a half-meter of bungee cord on the other end. Attach the bungee cord to the harness with a rubber band so you do not lose the dummy pilotchute. I guess I'd have to see this one, because I'm visuallizing something pretty scary (attached dummy PC trailing behind them where it could entangle the reserve in the event of a mal) Blues, Dave >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will repeat myself .... "Attach the dummy handle to the harness with a rubber band ..." The rubber band forms a "weak link" that will release if the dummy handle entangles with a deploying parachute. We have been using this style of dummy handle for the last year in Pitt Meadows with zero problems. We copied the idea from the Campbell River DZ who have been using it for many more years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #17 September 24, 2003 >What is this WDI material? Wind drift indicator material. It's yellow and decays rapidly, and it's cheap. All DZ's used to have a big spool of the stuff, back when WDI's were important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #18 September 24, 2003 Now it seems like most DZ's use skydivers as WDI's.... 7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #19 September 25, 2003 Well........... Bill is a little "yellow" around the edges....... at his age I'm sure he "decays rapidly"........ Just kidding Bill!!!!!!!! We still keep WDI material around and wind loads. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
