cypres saves?

[smiles 0]

Are cypres-equipped skydivers more altitude aware?? (not humming it as low as they were years ago.) How many skydivers have survived from cut-away failure due to cypres save? Has skydivers experiencing cypres save due to cut-away failure answered the question of what caused cut-away failure? I certainly felt cypres saves would address explanation, but to date do not feel they have.

For instance- my first recall of a expert cypres save in Canada was in Vancouver B.C. at a d.z. close to mine Sept. 95. Skydiver with 470 jumps experienced difficulty in pulling her throw away pilot chute. After repeated attempts she pulled her cut-away then remained in stable freefall until cypres activated at 750 ft. According to documented cypres saves: She was unable subsequently to explain why she had not pulled the reserve. According to rummor she had taken medication for a bee sting and thought that may be the cause- also she "thought" she had pulled her reserve when in actually had pulled her cut-away.

I began thinking that safety awareness and emergency procedures was less of a concern for cypres owners.

The best realistic practising of a cut-away would be where during jumping an additional (second) emergency parachute is used and the main deliberately cut-away for training purposes.
-Have training efforts been made to increase practising cut-aways??
-Are student jumpers receiving the opportunity in their training to practise emergency procedures under the influence of (the most intense possible) fear?

Cut-away failure was of crucial importance worldwide and one of the most frequent causes of fatal accidents. No pull-low pull (main not pulled or after cut-away reserve is either not pulled- or pulled to late......primarily due to parachutist failure.
I recall reading CISM-technical brochure 48e- (1992)
Possible solutions to the problem of cut-away failure by: R.Maire. The brochure was dedicated Jens-Henrik Johnsen who died age 37, March 14 1992 with a cut-away failure. The terrible part and the irony of his death is that he had firmly committed himself to prevent this type of accident, as a member of the FAI he did much to prevent parachuting accidents worldwide.

In the brochure there is a human information processing model of the brain, which was used to explain cut-away failure. Re: a parachutist who has practised and automated the emergency procedure while in a relaxed state (info stored in "low memory" locations) will be able to make optimum use of this knowledge as long as he remains in a functional state corresponding to that in the training situation.

As soon as the skydiver is in a state of stress or panic he/she is no longer able to access the required knowledge of the emergency procedure stored in "low memory" locations.

In a situation rated extremely dangerous in initial interpretation, only the "highest" memory locations are accessible. Unpredictable panic reactions even on the part of experienced parachutists are always likely to occur. The short response time available to them is not long enough for the brain to reach that functional state which allows the required information to be accessed and the learned behavioral measures to be taken.

Nevertheless, if man is supposed to fly, training situations should at least stimulate conditions which are as similar to the real situation as possible, i.e. the parachutist should have the opportunity to practise under the influence of (the most intense possible) fear. This might allow emergency procedures to be stored in "highest memory" locations which store the program for extreme danger to aquire the necessary knowledge. Since simulation exercises have a high learning effect, efforts should be made to increase their use.

SMiles

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Instead of saving my ass, my Cypres could have killed me on one jump several months ago. But it can be argued that I almost killed myself instead of my Cypres trying to kill me.

I'm out of here folks ... time to go play some volleyball.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[sundevil777 102]

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Are cypres-equipped skydivers more altitude aware?? (not humming it as low as they were years ago.)

I think the answer is definitely yes. The average pull altitude seems to be much higher, I believe in large part due to people wanting to be able to complete emergency procedures before falling through the cypres activation zone.

The fact that people still occasionally fail in altitude awareness during a malfunction is a separate point, not related to whether they were intending to take it as low as in years past.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,991]

>>Are cypres-equipped skydivers more altitude aware?? (not
>>humming it as low as they were years ago.)

>I think the answer is definitely yes.

I think they are definitely pulling higher. I think they are also, in some cases, more likely to not pull at all, and to choose situations (i.e. learning headdown without looking at the ground) in which they are more likely to completely lose altitude awareness. That's what worries me, since not pulling at all is a lot more deadly than pulling at 1000 feet.

But I agree that the increase in pull altitudes is a good thing, and at least partly due to cypreses.

[michaelflying 0]

If you don't have one try get one if you need one give up skydiving

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[trigger 0]

>>Are cypres-equipped skydivers more altitude aware?? (not
>>humming it as low as they were years ago.)

>I think the answer is definitely yes. ***

I think your probably right.However i witnessed my first ever Cypres save/fire at the Espace boogie[Vichy/france] this year,where following a pilot chute in tow/baglock malfunction,the jumper failed to initiate any emergency procedures [WTF] hence the Cypres save.
I would like to add,the jumper in question allegedly had 1700+ skydives.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[Ron 10]

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I think the answer is definitely yes. The average pull altitude seems to be much higher, I believe in large
part due to people wanting to be able to complete emergency procedures before falling through the cypres
activation zone.

I think that pull altitudes have increased due to slower opening canopies...My first canopy was a Raven II. It would open in 200-250 feet. Then an Esprit. It would open in what felt like 5 feet. Then I got my Stiletto, and my pull altitudes went up to adjust for the slower opening.

This was before I had a CYPRES.

Also before a CYPRES not many were doing headdown..I can't think of anyone anyway.

So new canopies, and new styles of skydiving get my votes for why pull altitudes increased...Not AAD's.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Chrisky 0]

Hmm, i like the idea of a "training" in-air cutaway with a special rig containing 2 Mains and one reserve.

This is because i have often wondered about what a cutaway is like as i've never had one (yet, and don't want one). Maybe it could be offered in a way like Birdman-Seminars or Canopycontrol seminars.

What do you other people think?

I think getting to know what it feels like falling away from a canopy and then releasing the other is a very good thing.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[AndyMan 7]

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What do you other people think?

The rig that you've described is called an "Intentional cuttaway Rig", or a "Tertiary rig". They do exist.

They tend to be found at larger dropzones, they are usually only used during tandem training, and testing new canopies.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Hmm, i like the idea of a "training" in-air cutaway with a special rig containing 2 Mains and one reserve.

This is because i have often wondered about what a cutaway is like as i've never had one (yet, and don't want one). Maybe it could be offered in a way like Birdman-Seminars or Canopycontrol seminars.

What do you other people think?

I think getting to know what it feels like falling away from a canopy and then releasing the other is a very good thing.

I have one; It's called a "Vector 1 with the tertiary reserve option". I advertised it in the classifieds a couple months back, but no one was interested.

Alternatively, a balloon jump is a very good simulation of what it's like to cut away from a partial mal.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[trigger 0]

Please don't quote me this as it could well be one of lifes urban myths!
But i heard that in Perris you can jump the VX46 cut it away and land with a more 'conventional'canopy,tetenary rig supplied of course.
I'm english so maybe one of our friends in the states can confirm or deny this.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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(i.e. learning headdown without looking at the ground)

Looking at the ground while learning hd is most definately not recommended (in the HD position) = massive drive. People that look down tend to arch, and that in turn tends to drive them forward as ridiculous speeds. Instead they should rotate to a sit if that what they're worried about.
It's also the reason at least 1 audible (pref 2) should be worn.
Finally it makes for another strong case on learning sit/stand first as it allows you to get your "clock" in while being able to reference the ground.

I know that's off topic, but....my 2 cents.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[billvon 2,991]

>Looking at the ground while learning hd is most definately not
>recommended (in the HD position) = massive drive.

You have to be able to look down to judge your altitude. If you can't judge your altitude yourself then you put yourself at risk for a cypres fire or a terminal impact when your altimeter fails, and that (in my opinion) is an unreasonable risk to take. There are certain absolutes in skydiving, and two of them are pull before impact and always know when it's time to pull.

If a jumper truly feels that looking down will ruin his form. and gets a cypres just in case - then we're back to the original argument, which is that people are starting to rely on cypreses, and using them as a reason to do something that they would otherwise think was too dangerous. I think that's a bad thing in general.

[billvon 2,991]

>I think that pull altitudes have increased due to slower opening canopies...

Agreed, but the cypres came out before the spectre. In 93, I can remember people opening their Sabre 1's and Monarchs higher to avoid a misfire.

[Ron 10]

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Agreed, but the cypres came out before the spectre. In 93, I can remember people opening their Sabre 1's
and Monarchs higher to avoid a misfire

Higher as in not 1500 feet, but 2,000-2,500 feet? Or higher like 3,000 -4,000 that a lot of people pull today?

I started to pull higher when I got my first Stiletto...I didn't have a CYPRES for many more years, but the Stiletto took longer to open and when it mal'd it was nasty.

So for me it was canopy, not CYPRES.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ianmdrennan 2]

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You have to be able to look down to judge your altitude. If you can't judge your altitude yourself then you put yourself at risk for a cypres fire or a terminal impact when your altimeter fails, and that (in my opinion) is an unreasonable risk to take. There are certain absolutes in skydiving, and two of them are pull before impact and always know when it's time to pull.

I was talking about learning HD, I didn't say never look down, in fact I provided examples on BETTER ways to be able to look down (upright) while getting enough skill to be able to do it in a HD(look down without tracking all over the place). I also never said anything about buying a cypress for saving your ass cause of not looking down.

If you actually READ my post I wasn't talking about cypresses at all.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Scrumpot 1]

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the jumper failed to initiate any emergency procedures [WTF] hence the Cypres save.
I would like to add,the jumper in question allegedly had 1700+ skydives.

Did anyone ever subsequently talk to this skydiver to determine WHY he never initiated any emergency procedures?? ...I for one, would sure like to hear/learn more from this event! ---Please do share, if you know.

THANKS!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Chrisky 0]

Thanks for the info; I wouldn't want to buy a rig just for that, so count me out...

Did a baloon jump already and liked it. Well, i guess i'll just wait for my first f*cked up packjob or til i get to one of the bigger DZs, whatever comes first...

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...