Re: [skysquiffy] CYPRES Save!

[sducoach 0]

Busted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

James 4:8

[Ron 10]

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I'm not going to splice amongst all your comments as there's only so many times a person can respond to
"smart ass" and "it wasn't a question".

Or reply to

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Who you are (again, by your own admission) has done an inordinate amount of stupid things during

your skydiving career. As you have pointed out several times, avoid doing them in the first place.
You're self-induced war stories are coming across as false bravado.

Or

Well I never said I did an inordinate amount..you did. You don't know haw many stupid things I have done in my life do you?

And I don't like false bravado comment...I only tell the stories so that people can learn from them if they wish.

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Do you act like a skygod? I hadn't thought about it, but now you mention it, I guess you are.

Then

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When you wrap up anything sensible you have to say with an
elitist attitude, you may be right.

and then

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As I said before, simply stomping your feet with "but I
have all these jumps, I'm right and you're wrong" is
not going to fly.

Which I never did...What I did do was tell you to do as many jumps as me and if you don't have afew no shit stories then you could gloat. Im betting you will have afew of your own.

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You have failed to ever answer the first question
I posed to your post. Go back and read it, the
first one. You didn't respond and there wasn't a
snide thing about my questions. Unless, of
course, you choose to see it that way.

Ok I did...Sorry I never saw that one, only the snide remark one.

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The second post was an observation based on
your comments. I did not intend to be snide.

Really? I got a few PM/Emaisl about this one:

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She was fully geared and ready to exit at 2,000 AGL. That's apparently not a statement that you can always make.

And I even responded to them before I got back to you...5 of my friends thought you were being a smart ass...So maybe you didn't mean to, but it did come off that way.

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As an instructor, and somebody with so many
jumps, experience, and harrowing experiences
you would've thought your skin was a little
thicker.

Oh it is thicker...Im not in the slightest bit mad. Just enjoying this actually.

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You are still being reactionary and overly
sensitive in my opinion.

And in my opinion you are acting like a smart ass.
Could we both be wrong?

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You've resorted to
redundant name calling and splitting hairs about
question marks.

Well your first comment came across VERY smart as a smart ass comment. Maybe you didn't mean it, but it does seem like it.

And a question and a smart ass comment get very different responses from me.

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And as a point of fact, I realized recently as the
plane was about to take off that my AAD was
not turned on. I didn't fiddle with it and I still
jumped. I did not change my skydive in the least.

Great...notice I never said YOU were dependent..Only that there ARE people.

Would you treat a CYPRES fire as a run of the mill occurance, or would you realize that its about as close to death as you can get and you would need to think about it?

Now about that question....

I ran to the plane without my gear on...

Why?

Well, I had somewhere around 1,000 jumps. A buddy of mine saw me on the DZ and put me on a load without telling me. It was a weekday and they needed people to fly. He comes up to me wearing his gear on a 10 min call and says "Oh shit man, you are on this load with me..We are doing a two way".

I tell him I can't make it since my gear is at my trailer.

He tells me that the whole load will be scratched if I don't go (Since thats why he put me on it) and the props are starting to turn on the Otter. There was a group of students that were waiting all day to jump, so I said give me a second and ran to get my Jumpsuit.

He grabbed my gear from the gear room and told me he would meet me at the boarding area.

When I get there the plane was waiting on me, and my gear was nowhere to be seen. He waives to me from the plane, and yells he has my gear.

Now I knew I didn't have enough time to put all my gear on without wasting all that Jet A. I know its not my problem, but I do want to help the DZ...Also I have that "1,000 jumps" mentality. (I am WAY more carefull now that then). As I jump in the plane it starts to roll..I fiqured that they would let me get geared before take off...But then again they didn't seem to wait. It was a light load so I just walked back to the co pilot seat and strapped in. I fiqure that I will be a co pilot till I can take the seat belts off.

He starts out to the runway before I get seated, so I had to rush a little.

After take off I ask my buddy if he armed my CYPRES. He said he didn't know this rig had one. To late now we are airborne. Oh well. Nothing I can do other than ride the plane down...And thats not an option for me.

At around 1500-2000 feet I take of my seat belt and start putting on my rig. It probley takes less than a minute, and I can always sit down and put on seat belt till I have it on.

After I get it on and give myself a gear check, and get one from my buddy we talk about the dive. At this point another guy asks if I want a gear check...I did put the damn thing on in the plane so I say "Yes please". I pay attention to people when they give me gear checks. I start to feel him pushing on my rig when he is checking my reserve...He is trying to turn on my CYPRES! I roll away from him, and you know the rest of the story.

It was not the smartest thing I have ever done, but there was very little risk the way I worked it...I sat in a pilot seat till I could get my rig on, so I was in a normal seat, and I was not near the door. I doubt I would have done this in a single engine plane, and in no way would I have done it in a cessna....However, I did almost change rigs in a cessna once. Another stupid story, but I had the sense not to do it.

I would not recomend anyone do this, and as Chris said he would not have taken off with me not geared up. I let myself get caught up in a series of events that I didn't have control over. I know better now, but not then.

So thats the whole story. I should not have done it, but I was over the "newbie" stage and into the "I know what I am doing stage"....This gets followed by the "How the hell did I survive all that stupid shit stage?" I am in now.

I think the most dangerous jumpers are not the new ones...You watch for them, and they still have a good dose of fear in them. Around 300 jumps they stop being scared,and start pushing it a little (now it seems at times way to much). Around 700ish they become dangerous. They think they know what they are doing and don't take advice very well. Then something really bad happens to them or someone they know and they wake up. This just happens. It can happen sooner, and some times never does happen.
Better answer?

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skysquiffy 0]

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I'm not going to splice amongst all your comments as there's only so many times a person can respond to
"smart ass" and "it wasn't a question".

Or reply to

***Who you are (again, by your own admission) has done an inordinate amount of stupid things during

your skydiving career. As you have pointed out several times, avoid doing them in the first place.
You're self-induced war stories are coming across as false bravado.

Or

Well I never said I did an inordinate amount..you did. You don't know haw many stupid things I have done in my life do you?

Actually, your first sentence to me in your first reply was "Yes Emma in my 3,000 jumps and 10 years I have gone to the plane without my gear on. I have also hundreds of other stupid things." It appears that you have a fairly good idea, and I think that 200 or more stupid mistakes in 3,000 jumps is inordinate.

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And I don't like false bravado comment...I only tell the stories so that people can learn from them if they wish.

***
Do you act like a skygod? I hadn't thought about it, but now you mention it, I guess you are.

Then

Quote

When you wrap up anything sensible you have to say with an
elitist attitude, you may be right.

and then

Quote

As I said before, simply stomping your feet with "but I
have all these jumps, I'm right and you're wrong" is
not going to fly.

Which I never did...What I did do was tell you to do as many jumps as me and if you don't have afew no shit stories then you could gloat. Im betting you will have afew of your own.

ok

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You have failed to ever answer the first question
I posed to your post. Go back and read it, the
first one. You didn't respond and there wasn't a
snide thing about my questions. Unless, of
course, you choose to see it that way.

Ok I did...Sorry I never saw that one, only the snide remark one.

Quote

The second post was an observation based on
your comments. I did not intend to be snide.

Really? I got a few PM/Emaisl about this one:
***She was fully geared and ready to exit at 2,000 AGL. That's apparently not a statement that you can always make.

And I even responded to them before I got back to you...5 of my friends thought you were being a smart ass...So maybe you didn't mean to, but it did come off that way.

Well then I would suggest that your friends have far too much influence over you.

Quote

Quote

As an instructor, and somebody with so many
jumps, experience, and harrowing experiences
you would've thought your skin was a little
thicker.

Oh it is thicker...Im not in the slightest bit mad. Just enjoying this actually.

Quote

You are still being reactionary and overly
sensitive in my opinion.

And in my opinion you are acting like a smart ass.
Could we both be wrong?

We're not both right.

Quote

You've resorted to
redundant name calling and splitting hairs about
question marks.

Well your first comment came across VERY smart as a smart ass comment. Maybe you didn't mean it, but it does seem like it.

And a question and a smart ass comment get very different responses from me.

fair enough, but you didn't actually know I was being a smartass.

Quote

Quote

And as a point of fact, I realized recently as the
plane was about to take off that my AAD was
not turned on. I didn't fiddle with it and I still
jumped. I did not change my skydive in the least.

Great...notice I never said YOU were dependent..Only that there ARE people.

Would you treat a CYPRES fire as a run of the mill occurance, or would you realize that its about as close to death as you can get and you would need to think about it?

I would think about it before, during and after. Extensively.

Quote

Now about that question....

I ran to the plane without my gear on...

Why?

Well, I had somewhere around 1,000 jumps. A buddy of mine saw me on the DZ and put me on a load without telling me. It was a weekday and they needed people to fly. He comes up to me wearing his gear on a 10 min call and says "Oh shit man, you are on this load with me..We are doing a two way".

I tell him I can't make it since my gear is at my trailer.

He tells me that the whole load will be scratched if I don't go (Since thats why he put me on it) and the props are starting to turn on the Otter. There was a group of students that were waiting all day to jump, so I said give me a second and ran to get my Jumpsuit.

He grabbed my gear from the gear room and told me he would meet me at the boarding area.

When I get there the plane was waiting on me, and my gear was nowhere to be seen. He waives to me from the plane, and yells he has my gear.

Now I knew I didn't have enough time to put all my gear on without wasting all that Jet A. I know its not my problem, but I do want to help the DZ...Also I have that "1,000 jumps" mentality. (I am WAY more carefull now that then). As I jump in the plane it starts to roll..I fiqured that they would let me get geared before take off...But then again they didn't seem to wait. It was a light load so I just walked back to the co pilot seat and strapped in. I fiqure that I will be a co pilot till I can take the seat belts off.

He starts out to the runway before I get seated, so I had to rush a little.

After take off I ask my buddy if he armed my CYPRES. He said he didn't know this rig had one. To late now we are airborne. Oh well. Nothing I can do other than ride the plane down...And thats not an option for me.

At around 1500-2000 feet I take of my seat belt and start putting on my rig. It probley takes less than a minute, and I can always sit down and put on seat belt till I have it on.

After I get it on and give myself a gear check, and get one from my buddy we talk about the dive. At this point another guy asks if I want a gear check...I did put the damn thing on in the plane so I say "Yes please". I pay attention to people when they give me gear checks. I start to feel him pushing on my rig when he is checking my reserve...He is trying to turn on my CYPRES! I roll away from him, and you know the rest of the story.

It was not the smartest thing I have ever done, but there was very little risk the way I worked it...I sat in a pilot seat till I could get my rig on, so I was in a normal seat, and I was not near the door. I doubt I would have done this in a single engine plane, and in no way would I have done it in a cessna....However, I did almost change rigs in a cessna once. Another stupid story, but I had the sense not to do it.

I would not recomend anyone do this, and as Chris said he would not have taken off with me not geared up. I let myself get caught up in a series of events that I didn't have control over. I know better now, but not then.

So thats the whole story. I should not have done it, but I was over the "newbie" stage and into the "I know what I am doing stage"....This gets followed by the "How the hell did I survive all that stupid shit stage?" I am in now.

I think the most dangerous jumpers are not the new ones...You watch for them, and they still have a good dose of fear in them. Around 300 jumps they stop being scared,and start pushing it a little (now it seems at times way to much). Around 700ish they become dangerous. They think they know what they are doing and don't take advice very well. Then something really bad happens to them or someone they know and they wake up. This just happens. It can happen sooner, and some times never does happen.
Better answer?

Ron

Yes, thank you. I won't dissect it, but I will offer you an opinion from a newbie's perspective.

You've repeatedly stated that there was no additional danger to others. However, I believe that the example you were setting was exceptionally dangerous. Newbies can be impressionable, no? They can get in a lot of trouble by wanting to be like the cool dudes. Education comes in many different forms.

[D22369 0]

--->Uhhhhh.....Emma, some years back I believe a whole plane load of Golden nights did just this.....



Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Ron 10]

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Actually, your first sentence to me in your first reply was "Yes Emma in my 3,000 jumps and 10 years I
have gone to the plane without my gear on. I have also hundreds of other stupid things." It appears
that you have a fairly good idea, and I think that 200 or more stupid mistakes in 3,000 jumps is
inordinate.

Who said they were all skydiving mistakes? I have mistakes in driving,motorcycles, climbing, flying, SCUBA diving, and yes some good ones in skydiving. Not all were as bad as some, none required hospital stays or metal put inside me...I did have one E room visit due to a bad hookturn...But I didn't break anything. Some of my mistakes are small such as docking in the wrong slot on a 40 way...not a saftey issue but still a mistake. Did you think all my mistakes were almost fatal? I have a few that should have killed me that I could have prevented, and some that I had almost no control over. And a couple of really stupid things I have done thinking I was bullet proof....And some really stupid things I thought of doing. They are all mistakes.

I would you rather learn from mine than have to make them on your own....If you SCUBA dive I will gladly tell you some of my better SCUBA mistakes...One involves being 250 feet down in a cave and being so narc'ed that I started to take of my mask thinking I didn't need it. Wow that was dumb! Lession? Don't do 250' on air. Must use a mix. 218' is risking OXtox for any extended time, but it was just a bounce dive. But we didn't take into account that I had never been that deep and how the nitrogen would effect me.

Oh well I lived and would never take you that deep on air for your first time.

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Well then I would suggest that your friends have far too much influence over you.

Well no, I saw that comment from you as smart ass on my own...But I got confermation before I replyed...I was checking with others I trust and getting others opinions...

The result? All 5 told me you were being a smart ass...Which just confermed my view of it..And so it was game on!

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We're not both right.

We could be..they are independant of each other. You could be a smart ass, and I could be an asshole.

The big thing with me is I don't care what people I don't know think of me. And I tell things just like I see them. I am direct and to the point. Political correct is not something I do. The ground does not care how you think of it, and neither do I. I just am who I am and I make no apologies about it.

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fair enough, but you didn't actually know I was being a smartass.

True, but it did look it. And I did have 5 trusted others tell me that you were being one before I responded.

The result was 6 to 0 in favor of it being a smart ass comment. It was a good one, and all I did was reply with when you have X number more jumps and have not done anything stupid call me up and gloat...But I bet you will have done something stupid by then. I just hope you live through it so you can call me up.

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I would think about it before, during and after. Extensively.

Good but some will not...This and the fact you have made a jump sans AAD tells me you are not one of the ones I worry about. Well I still worry, but I worry about everyone. If I was not a republican I could be accused of having a bleeding heart.

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You've repeatedly stated that there was no additional danger to others. However, I believe that the
example you were setting was exceptionally dangerous. Newbies can be impressionable, no? They can get in
a lot of trouble by wanting to be like the cool dudes. Education comes in many different forms.

Good points.

However I was not in any real additional danger. I was the same as any other passenger.

Then I did get 3 gear checks after I had put my kit on.

I was in no way a good example. But back then I had only 1,000 jumps and didn't care about how I looked (Well I still don't care what people think of me..My Mom still loves me, and I can always get a dog.) But at that time I never thought of being a "role model"....I still don't think like that.

But I have learned that most people with a few hundred jumps think they now know it all, and are not going to listen to me or anyone else unless they tell them what they want to hear.

So again, I am not a role model. I still listen to people.

The day I think I really know what I am doing is the day I quit.

I hope people can learn from my stupid things so they don't have to learn them on their own. Just I like I learn from the ones of us that screwed up and are dead.

Have a good day and remember....Don't get on without gear and don't SCUBA 250 feet on air. Also don't do a wheelie on a busy street right infront of the motorcycle dealership. Check your handles! Don't just reach down and pull out the power in a plane when on long final...The engine might just die. Next time hit the brakes and hit the car, don't swerve and end up flipping your new car about 7 times. There are more.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skreamer 1]

Emma and Ron

Are either of you familiar with Reader's Digest Condensed Versions?

[Ron 10]

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Emma and Ron

Are either of you familiar with Reader's Digest Condensed Versions?

Nope

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

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Emma and Ron

Are either of you familiar with Reader's Digest Condensed Versions?

Nope

That's obvious!

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals