Re: [scooterskydives] CYPRES Save!

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

Or a reason to not jump with someone who will cork under you. If you decide to jump with someone who might cork because "hey, I have a cypres" then use of the device is making you a less safe skydiver. If you do both i.e. refuse to jump with people who might cork when you're head down _and_ use a cypres, you're ahead of the game, and the cypres is increasing your margin of safety.

I have never come across anybody that thinks it's OK to cork just because they have a Cypres.....but, remember...even the best can screw up. If I'm jumping with a champion freeflyer, it doesn't mean they CAN NOT cork during an over/under. Likely? No. Possible? Yes. A Cypres helps mitigate the risk of going in because you are unconscious and unable to pull anything, or the shit really hits the fan and you just don't pull for some reason. I've proven many, many hundreds of times that I know how to pull...and half a dozen that I even know how to chop and go silver..but I still jump with a Cypres 99% of the time. Why? Because I think it's a good measure of added safety.

Quote

But if hypothetically I had been in the past in a position to make a C+P from a small plane at a low altitude with a BASE rig I'd have no problem at all. Heck, it's safer than your average BASE jump - there's nothing to hit. And it's a much better way to test a BASE pack job than using it on a low object for the first time.

Ok, bad assumption on my part. I, hypothetically of course, have done something similar...but, of course, it's not legal - so I never would have done such a thing.

Quote

One way that I have of determining this is to ask the "would you do an ideal jump without one?" (ideal being whatever sort of jump they consider safest - C+P from an otter or whatever.)

Just because somebody considers something the safest doesn't mean that it is 100% safe. I consider flying the safest possible form of transportation. Does that mean I think I am impervious to an accident in an airplane? No way. I fuck up just like every other human being. Hell, I fucked up TODAY while flying. It was a very minor thing that caused no safety issue, but it could have if I had done something different. Training and experience took over, though. Even if I do everything perfect, mechanical issues(or other human beings) can cause serious problems. If somebody chooses to take every reasonable precaution to ensure their safety, I have no problem with that - even if that means they won't jump without a Cypres.

Of course, if they won't jump without a Cypres because they are unsure of their ability to save themselves, there is a real problem and they should not be jumping.

I made a decision long ago....If I ever have a Cypres fire in a situation which I did nothing to save my ass(and I survive), I will hang up my jumpsuit, sell my rig, and never jump again. I feel that people that are saved by an AAD that never tried to save themselves should not be jumping. That applies for people that RELY on an AAD to save their life in normal situations too.

The only problem with a Cypres is that it changes the way I jump. I am more conservative in my pull altitudes(maybe that's NOT a problem after all, but a blessing) and my willingness to try to correct a mal on a main. On my last mal, I fucked up bad. I tried to correct a problem way too long. Well, that was the second mistake...first one was taking it too low with a known snivelly canopy. Luckily, I was slow enough that the Cypres didn't fire, or else it could have been really nasty. I finally made the right decision and chopped, only to end up under a reserve at 400'(which is, technically, 399' higher than I really HAD to ).

Mike

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

The reality of skydiving is that twelve years ago, we didn't have cypreses - and people weren't going in at the rate we're having cypres firings now.

Bill,
Do you have any stats on this? AFAIK the fatality statistics from the 70's and 80's had a high percentage of "no pull". I do not know how they compare to the number Cypres saves. I read something about that there were 300-400 documented Cypres saves world-wide. Don't know how many in the US. How does that compare to the
with the reduction of fatalities due to "no pull" - anyone have stats?

www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/ and look for the obvious link to a graph of this.

Edited to add the actual link:

www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/fatalities.gif

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

Unlike some people posting here, I am a human being. The human being that does not make mistakes has yet to be born. This truth is generally not apparent to teenagers, but the older you get the more obvious this is.

I have done competitive 10-way speed without a CYPRES, but only because I had to borrow a rig. In general I choose to be CYPRES equipped because I acknowledge that mistakes happen, and I consider death a pretty harsh punishment for a moment's inattention.

So far I've made 1300 jumps and deployed for myself on every one, but it strikes me as foolish in the extreme to use that as a basis to predict that I'll never make a mistake in the future. Maybe I would have thought that way when I was 22, but not now, at 58.

Using that reasoning I'd jump without a reserve, 'cos I've also made 1300 jumps without needing one (except to satisfy the FAA).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

>It's every individual's right to decide on what level of risk they are
>comfortable with... and that should be respected.

No argument there.

It is my opinion that someone who cannot pull reliably and pull stable should not be a skydiver - yet I have jumped with such people. They are still in the air. I respect their right to take whatever chances they want, but that doesn't mean I think it's OK.

It is my opinion that if someone cannot land crosswind and make a flat turn at 50 feet, they should not downsize. I will tell people this, but will not physically stop them if they downsize. It's their life. It doesn't mean I will hold my tounge when I see them jumping a Stilettio 97 at 50 jumps out of "respect" or something.

Aren't you a proponent of a BSR that would have exactly this effect (stopping some people from downsizing when they want to)?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[174fps 1]

Quote

However, compared to all the skydives made, his incident was pretty unusual.

There was a fatal tail strike last year,(king Air) experienced jumper no helmet,no cypres

Shit can happen to anybody, Mark Kirkby got his nose broken through a full face at Gap.

Andrew

[sducoach 0]

Bingo!!!

Quote

Bill,

You can "what if" this to death but then you would have to depend upon your computer to do so. Ooops... there goes that "equipment dependency" thing again. Nonsensical arguments.

So, tell me this. What part, specifically, of your equipment do YOU depend upon when you skydive to save your life?

Now remember, please explain in the same format that you argue in.

Blues,

J.E

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8