What not to do (how the Aggie almost died)

[Ron 10]

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Got my mind made up about one thing, that is as long as Im skydiving, which may be a long time, Im pulling
at 4000.

Yeah, I said the same thing...I was never gonna hook turn either.

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was sitting at a bar this weekend in Phoenix, talking to a guy who used to be on the Marine Corps
skydiving team. So when I left, he said "good luck", and I told him it was only a tandem, not worried about
it. He says, in these exact words, "Every single skydive can take your life". It was the way he said it that
really shook me up, still thinking about it.

This guy had a good point....But you just did a TANDEM...and you are making choices on what you will do for the rest of your jumping career??????? You don't have a clue yet.
Wait a little before you start to post things so strongly....You will be made to look stupid if you do this.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

I have cut a way at 700 feet....Long story on why I was so low, but it was needed, I would not have survived the landing...

Think about it...The CYPRES (which some people appear to depend on) fires at 750 feet.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Wait a little before you start to post things so strongly....You will be made to look stupid if you do this."

This is good advice Stylin, take heed.
There are instances where going a whole lot lower than 4000 makes sense for safety reasons, not to mention exiting the aircraft a hell of a lot lower than your minimum 4000.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[beemertec 0]

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When is to low for you to cutaway?

I was taught to have my decision made by no lower than 2000 feet, and to be under the canopy I intend to land by 1000 feet minimum. I have an RSL so I would cutaway as low as 1000 feet. If I were flying without one, I think I would want to be higher, just in case.

Blue Skies
Steve
Ok, so it's pink, but I'm secure in my manhood, and I still look cool coming in under it!

[Ron 10]

Why would an RSL make a difference?
It should not.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AggieDave 6]

A RSL, maybe, maybe not. Now a Skyhook, that would. According to RWS's testing, you could cut away as low as 400ft and still have a life saving reserve over your head (note: maybe not fully inflated, but something there to save your life).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ron 10]

yes, but at 1000 feet you could take a delay after cutting away...I would not suggest you do it, but you could.

He is putting more power in a device than he should...

He said with an RSL he would cut away lower than without...
Whats the difference???

Nothing, you can pull the silver handle even before the cutaway if you wish...(Canopy transfer, used to be done a lot before high wingloads mad faster mals).

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Jethers203 0]

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G. Minimum opening altitudes [E]
Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are:

1. Tandem jumps-4,500 feet AGL

2. All students and A-license holders-3,000 feet AGL

3. B-license holders-2,500 feet AGL

4. C- and D-license holders-2,000 feet AGL

I didn't know he was ever talking about the APF!!!!!
These are the recommended opening from the USPA!!!!!

The USPA SIM says that you should:

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c. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude:


(1) Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet.

(2) B-D license holders: 1,800 feet.

Just to Clarify some shit!!!!!

[mikeat10500 12]

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A RSL, maybe, maybe not. Now a Skyhook, that would. According to RWS's testing, you could cut away as low as 400ft and still have a life saving reserve over your head (note: maybe not fully inflated, but something there to save your life).

No RSL...I have cut away at 1650' and was at line stretch at 1200'...450' from the time I pulled the
cutaway to being safe. Will it always open that fast?
No...I think it could snivel for a grand or not open at all.

RSL...eliminates time between cutaway and reserve pull...for me thats at least 1 sec=16' plus any unintentional delay that could be made in error" groping for handles, etc" This is were the RSL shines...not in that it can shave a sec of reserve deployment time but if you panic after a cutaway wile
you grope and fumble it has already started reserve deployment.

Skyhook...same as RSL only you don't have to accelerate to the speed required to create enough drag on reserve PC. The main becomes the reserve PC witch works well at low speed. This could shave as much as 100' off reserve deployment.

My min cutaway alt=?
A course conductor once asked how low I would exit
an A/C in an emergency, if I thought it could save my life. I said"8 feet...if I thought it would save my life".

USPA's min 1800' cutaway recommendation gives you
time to deal with shit in general and set up for a landing. A clean cutaway from 1800' is just another skydive...with a cool head you don't need RSL, Skyhook ,etc.

For a canopy collision at 600' you might want some of that fancy new stuff.
...mike

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[beemertec 0]

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Why would an RSL make a difference?

Keep in mind I am very new to this sport. The ink is still wet on my A-license. My thinking behind it is if, for whatever reason ( I know it should never happen) my hand slipped from my reserve handle, below 1000 ft I may not not have time to grab the handle again and deploy in time to land safely. I would think even a few hundred feet may make a difference. If I were below 1000 ft. I would do as I have seen recommended on these forums and deploy my reserve to get as much fabric over my head as possible then cutaway. Makes sense to me, anyway. If I am wrong let me know. I know there is a lot of difference in opinion even among experienced skydivers, and I like to hear all sides.

Blue Skies
Steve
Ok, so it's pink, but I'm secure in my manhood, and I still look cool coming in under it!

[billvon 2,998]

>According to RWS's testing, you could cut away as low as 400ft and
>still have a life saving reserve over your head . .

Heck, I could cut away with my reflex and have a reserve over my head in 400 ft. Tests on the sorcerer at the NRGB showed an inflated reserve in well under 50 feet; add time for the slider to come down and I'd bet you're still considerably better than 400 feet.

[stylin 1]

This guy had a good point....But you just did a TANDEM...and you are making choices on what you will do for the rest of your jumping career??????? You don't have a clue yet.
Wait a little before you start to post things so strongly....You will be made to look stupid if you do this.
Ron

[AggieDave 6]

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Actually, I have 6 tandems, trying to get used to it before moving on

So?

You still have no real clue about the sport, all you've done are ride alongs.

This is like someone going on a discovery flight at a local flight school, then hanging out with fighter pilots, trying to discuss dog-fight tactics. Basically, you have no clue.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[stylin 1]

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talking to a guy who used to be on the Marine Corps skydiving team.

Ummm, sorry bro, no such thing. Atleast not on an official level.

He did say skydiving team, and Marine Corps, and it sounded to me like he knew what he was talking about. Im sure if the Army has one then the Marines are bound to.

[AggieDave 6]

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Im sure if the Army has one then the Marines are bound to.

Nope.

Assuming the Marines do something b/c the Army does is a piss poor assumption. Actually go hit the web and find out about it before assuming. The two units the Marine Corps has for performing is their Drum and Bugle unit and the Siltent Drill Team.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

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Ill probably go on one more just to make sure I pass that AFF-1 the first time, I really dont need to be failing that. Thats the part on AFF-1 that scares me the most is not passing.

lol.

wonders how more than 2 tandems would help anyone pass AFF1

but hey if you want to give skydiveAZ more money I'm all for that. I had a friend who came out and just did 3 tandems over a weekend, she didnt have time to complete the course and knew she wouldnt be able to jump again for 6 months so...she was all about the ride. If thats the case then say so, but i cant imagine how any more tandems will help prepare you for being responsible for your own fate..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,998]

>Basically, you have no clue.

No personal attacks, even if you think you're right.

[stylin 1]

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Actually, I have 6 tandems, trying to get used to it before moving on

So?

You still have no real clue about the sport, all you've done are ride alongs.

This is like someone going on a discovery flight at a local flight school, then hanging out with fighter pilots, trying to discuss dog-fight tactics. Basically, you have no clue.

You know, you should consider writing a book on the subject so "stupid" people like me can learn something.

Never could figure out whys dem skydiver folks is always wearin' dem parachutes before they jump out of a plane. Went I went tandem, I didnt have to wear one!

[dreamsville 0]

Don't worry so much about knowing what you want to do in skydiving in the very beginning. Learn, try stuff, and keep an open mind. Don't worry about planning anything but the money and just try to be safe. You'll know what you like after you start trying it.

After all, at the time of my 3 tandems I didn't know what RW was and probably thought freefly was when a trapped mosquito found its way out of a car window.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Jessica 0]

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but i cant imagine how any more tandems will help prepare you for being responsible for your own fate..

I pulled the ripcord myself on my tandem. Tandems in a student progression also teach canopy control and body position.

Six does seem like a lot, but tandems are not an invalid form of skydiving. You're still hopping out of the plane.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[Zenister 0]

your right, tandems also help prepare a student for freefall so they dont 'space' for the first 30 sec and have no chance to pass..

however..if after 2 you arent prepared to try (different from being frightened about it, thats normal) to complete the skills nessesary to save your life, then perhaps skydiving is not for you.. "one more tandem to be sure i'll pass" sounds a lot like and excuse...


IMO doing a tandem doesnt make you a skydiver, your still just a passenger trusting someone else to save your life...its that first 'solo' leap that crosses the threshold for me..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,998]

>its that first 'solo' leap that crosses the threshold for me..

So to you, people become a skydiver on their level IV AFF or first SL? (or maybe 6th static line, which would be the first self-deployment.)

[dreamsville 0]

When are you not a whuffo (considered to be a skydiver)?

This was a thread some weeks ago that drew some pretty diverse opinions. It was also a very long thread.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Zenister 0]

well thats why i put 'solo' in qoutes..the first jump you do with your own parachute from altitude. (static lines dont count otherwise i was a skydiver after my first 3 months in the army)

since i went thru the same AFF course he's about to start i'm sure he'll hear the question several times "who is responsible for saving your life??? answer? "I am"

thats the threshold that marks it for me. the point at which you experience freefall and no one is really going to save you if you do everything wrong

granted the AFFI's are still going to do everything they can (and there is an AAD) but at some point they are going to break off and hope he does the right thing and/or the AAD functions properly

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Jessica 0]

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thats the threshold that marks it for me.

Well, the threshold that marks it for ME is your first freefall with your own gear wearing a pumpkin costume!

Therefore, NONE of you are skydivers!!! NONE OF YOU!!!

Ahem. My point is that you can't define to someone else what makes him or her a skydiver. What about the folks who are physically unable to jump on their own, but have a shitload of tandems?

Hey, to me, leaving the plane is leaving the plane. Six tandems is a level of commitment to the sport that most of the world's population won't show.

Skydiving is for cool people only