Weight limit for AFF

[ChunkyT 0]

I'm a freshman in college, and I'm attempting to get my AFF training this summer. However, my parents are still wedged far up my ass about the whole jumping out of planes thing. I also happen to be big boned, and my parents are fretting about my weight being too much for the chute I'll be piloting. The school I will be going to has a limit set at 225. If I weigh 225, since I'm at the maximum level, does this compromise my safety at all, or would it be better to be under a chute that has a higher weight rating for a student? I know it's a stupid question because I don't think the dz would put my health at risk, but if I can get a bunch of you guys and gals out there with experience with this stuff to respond, maybe I can wedge my parents out of my crack and start jumping. Thanks.

Chad
Boston, MA

We are creatures of the air, Our roots in dreams And clouds, reborn In flight.
-Salmon Rushdie

[Casch 0]

You should be fine. DZ's often set their weight limits to protect you in case you can't handle your own weight in the event of an..ahem...speedy landing. I weigh 250 and I'm doing just fine. They will probably look you over and evaluate your ability to handle yourself. They won't allow you to jump if they aren't confident that you're capable.

Trust me, on the skybarges they put students on, you'll be just fine. It just meens you'll be flying a bit faster and you'll get more performance out of the canopy than most people. There are MUCH heavier people that skydive than you. You should be just fine

[AggieDave 6]

I weigh just under 260. I've been referred to as "Corn Fed" more then a couple times, just a big frigg'n guy. It all works out, but yeah, just talk to the local DZ, see what their limits are. Their limits will be set about due to their gear.

Good Luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Casch 0]

Quote

Their limits will be set about due to their gear.

Oh yeah I forgot, if you didn't know this, skydiving gear is "TSO"'d (I can't remember what that stands for but it's testing the limits of the gear I believe) to certain strengths. The containers at my home DZ, Kapowsin, are TSO'd to 250 lbs I believe, but other DZ's use different containers and they all have their own maximum weights. Anyway, if you are right on the border, you should be fine as long as you can handle yourself and perform a good PLF (Parachutist Landing Fall)

[narcimund 0]

Back in the Sheridan DZ days, TSO stood for "Ted Says Ok".

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[riggerrob 643]

"TSO" stands for Type Standardization Orders written by the Federal Aviation Administration.
Most versions of TSO C23 limit exit weight to a maximum of 254 pounds.
A student weighing 220 to 230 pounds with 25 or 30 pounds of parachutes will nudge that 254 pound limit.
A few student rigs - that are certified under TSO C23D (introduced in 1993) may be certified for heavier weights.

On a practical note, any time a student's weight exceeds 200 pounds, I start to look closely at their physical fitness. Fat-bottom-girls who exceed 200 pounds are often given the "bone density" explanation as we steer them towards the bowling alley.
On the other hand I have done tandem jumps with dozens of musclar guys who exceeded 230 pounds. The best part is that big muscular guys listen very well.

[Michele 1]

Quote

Fat-bottom-girls who exceed 200 pounds

But it's o.k. for guys, right? Or do you tell them about bone density, as well?

I'm curious...

Ciels-
Michele

[zerojumps 0]

Hey Casch,
Did you say skydive oregon was your dropzone? I understood the 250 to be the fully loaded weight thus putting a 250 lb dude at around 280. This issue was confusing so I drove out to skydive oregon and said "Am I too big?" He had me step on the scale which read 246 (fully clothed). He then said I was OK, but not to gain any weight. This was kind of funny since in bodybuilding our goal is to gain weight. My question to SDO was in regards to tandem, not necessarily AFF training. During this whole time Archie is standing behind the counter saying "get his credit card" :)

-DJ
Forest Grove, OR

[Casch 0]

Actually... it's funny but Kapowsin Air Sports up near Puyallop is my home DZ. Yes, I drive all the way from here in Forest Grove up to Puyallup to skydive The reason being that I started when I was 17 and other than Skydive Eugene, Kapowsin was the closest DZ that would let me jump. And I found out about Kapowsin before Eugene and just sort of stuck with it. I'll be making a trip out to SDO soon though to check it out . It looks as though I'll have to drop some poundage though because I'm right at 250 right now When you start jumping and get off student status, we'll have to make a few jumps

[Tonto 1]

Hi there,

I see many people (I havn't read the whole thread) are refering to this as a gear issue, but a lot has to do with your AFF I's ability to "go fast" and have some range at that point if they need to get to your ripcord or give you a signal.

There's also the issue of working the exit if you go 3D on them...

Just a thought.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[mccordia 74]

There used to be a student on our DZ who was right on the edge of the envelope, when it concerned weight. Her fallrate was insane (small girl, heavy weight) and she got the nick "Balistic Meatball"

But when she started adding more weight, and coulnd't see/reach her rigs' handles anymore, she was grounded untill she lost weight. She hasn't jumped since.

I'm not sure if your just a big guy, or overweight. But loosing some weight might make it easyer for you in the end in terms of jumping (and you have a nice goal/reason to focus on)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[wmw999 2,447]

Quote

started adding more weight, and coulnd't see/reach her rigs' handles anymore, she was grounded untill she lost weight

That's an excellent reason to ground someone that's too heavy. The earlier one of "bone density" should be demonstrated, rather than assumed.

When I used to instruct, we'd make students who looked particularly heavy and out of shape jump off a van for PLF practice. We'd just drive the van (the DZ pickup van) out to the peas, and do a few practice landings. This was in the days of rounds, and we explained that this was closer to their landing speed under canopy than the 3-4' platform we used for normal PLF practice.

I don't think we ever had anyone get hurt doing this. There was at least one ankle fracture off the PLF platform . For that matter, I don't think we ever had anyone decide skydiving wasn't for them based on this exercise. We had at least one woman who passed this test become quite an experienced skydiver; at least a couple hundred fast-falling jumps.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pullhigh 0]

Being the self proclaimed world'd fattest skydiver, I would reccomend you look at a lot of issues. I weighed 285 when I went through AFF, and I weigh 285 now, 1300+ jumps and a TI rating later. I know that every time I leave the airplane, I am above the maximum allowable weight of my rig. It is I risk I am aware of, and I soley assume that risk. As far as AFF, I think the key is going to be finding the right jumpmasters to talk to. I had a military main side jumpmaster that had tons of experience, and the know how to get my ass out of trouble while tumbling through the sky. I also had to be dedicated enough to buy a custom jumpsuit before I could go on to level 4. I love this sport, and feel that I am a pretty decent RW skydiver. Fall rate is still an issue at times, but most of the people I jump with know what to expect and compensate for it. Get used to being called "Base" and taking some criticism. Most will tell you to lose weight, but that is easy for the 150 lbrs to say. I'd agree, losing weight is the best option, but don't give up just because of weight.

[sunshine 2]

Quote

Fat-bottom-girls who exceed 200 pounds
--------------------------------------------------------
But it's o.k. for guys, right? Or do you tell them about bone density, as well?

I'm curious...

That struck a nerve with me too michele. I'm anxiously awaiting the answer...

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[ChunkyT 0]

Yeah, I could def see that as a problem. But that's really not the case. I'm just a really big guy. I can and am loosing some excess weight, but i'm in good health and the majority of my wieght comes from my bone structure and muscle. Thanks for all your help.

Chad

We are creatures of the air, Our roots in dreams And clouds, reborn In flight.
-Salmon Rushdie

[mccordia 74]

Quote

Quote

Fat-bottom-girls who exceed 200 pounds
--------------------------------------------------------
But it's o.k. for guys, right? Or do you tell them about bone density, as well?

I'm curious...

That struck a nerve with me too michele. I'm anxiously awaiting the answer...

I understand what your implying, but I think he ment that there are guys weighing in at 100 to 120 kg who are arent realy fat, but are just pretty buffed due to a combination of lenght and muscles.
We have a couple of students walking around that are 195 to 2 meters in length, and they can tip the scale at 180 to 200 pounds without even looking fat. They can still clearly see and grab al their handles and are not restricted in their motions by their size.

Or he could mean that he shoves overweight girls away with an excuse, and just tells fat guys 'flat out' that they can't jump because they're too heavy..

Or he's just a sexist a*hole..:)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Vallerina 2]

Quote

but I think he ment that there are guys weighing in at 100 to 120 kg who are arent realy fat, but are just pretty buffed due to a combination of lenght and muscles

There are plenty of women who fit a similar description, though. There are plenty of women who are 6 foot, do have a larger frame, and have plenty of muscle. They might still be chunky (but still falling under a healthy fat percentage) and weigh over 200 pounds.

This isn't the women's forum, so I will not rant on how most women aren't 5'4" and 100 lbs.

Oh yeah...and what exactly is the physical fitness test that 200+ lb guys can pass that "fat bottomed girls" can't? Is there a scientific way of going about it? If you run a mile, are you fit for skydiving? Do you test them on that? Do you make them do push ups? What?

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[mccordia 74]

I was trying to stop this from becoming a male vs. female sexist thread...remeber, make love..not war!

I'm not sexist...I adore women..no matter how large their frame is :)

So maybe it was option 3:
he's just a sexist a*hole..:)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[riggerrob 643]

[
Or he could mean that he shoves overweight girls away with an excuse, and just tells fat guys 'flat out' that they can't jump because they're too heavy..

Or he's just a sexist a*hole..:)

[Michele 1]

Quote

If a student has a few extra pounds and plenty of muscle, I will cheerfully train them.

How do you tell, though?

I look like I'm "soft", but can easily (while smiling and laughing) lift your 200 pound self right off your feet (I've done it to someone who weighs that much about 3 weeks ago...). I am a black belt, and can easily kick someone's bottom from here to next week should the need ever arise (which it hasn't, thank god). I have thrown myself onto the ground innumerable times, and walked away (perhaps that's not something I should "brag" about). I have strength, and I have body fat.

I am, according to one friend, "lush"...I have boobs, bottom, and I am decidedly rounder. It could easily be said that I am "fat bottomed"...I am nowhere near "heroin chic", and absolutely have never been. Not even close. Not even at 10 years old...

So how do you tell? Really, is it simply what the scale says? If anyone is over 200 lbs, do you refuse to train them? If anyone is under 100 lbs, do you refuse to train them? When I lost my instructor during a dive, the school didn't refuse to continue to train me...they just made sure I got with someone who could keep up with a fat, flexible chick...and *I* learned how to do fall rate control. On my belly, I can go 146 (fastest ever), and also go 122 (slowest ever). I generally average about 126, because I was trained and taught how to handle it. And, my boobs are too big for me to actually see my handles, especially during an arch..but I know where the handles are.

I'd venture to say that an inflexible man, 220, musclebound, is likely to get into far more trouble than I. If there is no hip flexibility, how does one arch very hard and very quickly to get stable? That's not about strength... And yet he demonstrates the muscle strength to save himself...yet, soft "overweight" me, during my cutaway, had absolutely NO problem getting handles out in the correct order (even though I couldn't see them)...so exactly where does muscle strength get assessed?

I have no problem with an instructor checking things out, or refusing to teach someone who is a danger to themselves and/or to others. I do have a serious problem with someone looking at someone else, not knowing them in the least, and arbitrarily deciding that she is "bone density" "bowling material"...

Your comment did, indeed, offend me.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I am a black belt, and can easily kick someone's bottom from here to next week should the need ever arise

Remind me not to piss you off if I make it out to the Perris Memorial Day boogie.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[wmw999 2,447]

Michele, you'll never convince some folks that it's OK to be shaped differently. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. On the other hand, there are students who probably aren't in good enough shape to jump, and the instructor needs to figure this out.

So maybe the thing to do is to help USPA come up with some guidelines to be used in determining physical fitness?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Michele 1]

Quote

Remind me not to piss you off if I make it out to the Perris Memorial Day boogie.

There are two things you should know....

1. Tournement record: 22 fights, 1 second, 20 firsts, and one where no-one was willing to fight me, including the men's division...(and yes, I did all this chubby)...

2. I never hit first, and I always hit back.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Cajones 0]

If this were "Talk Back" I'd say "I can take you."

Since this' General Skydiving, I'll leave it alone.

j/k - I don't hit girls. I might toss one down and wrassle with her a little, though.

The laws of physics are strictly enforced.

[Michele 1]

Quote

you'll never convince some folks that it's OK to be shaped differently. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Yep. It's been discussed many times here and elsewhere...and if someone isn't willing to look at the situation from another perspective, then there is nothing I can do except make it plain to those who are willing to see it from other perspectives that appearances aren't everything.

Quote

On the other hand, there are students who probably aren't in good enough shape to jump, and the instructor needs to figure this out.

Agreed. As noted in my post, instructors need to determine if someone is a danger to themselves/the instructors, but flippantly and arbitrarily stating what was said is what I object to.

It's just my opinion, but covers and books and things oft times get people into trouble....

As to the blackbelt comments, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, or allow it to go flippant...it was made to demonstrate the concept that looks are deceiving, and individual assessment should be made...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~