Would you jump with someone you suspected of being high?

[Katzeye 0]

The drug testing thread got me thinking. I just moved to a new DZ and I'm also new in the air (175 jumps, just got recurrent after a year off). This DZ is known for it's "adult substances" and it's well known fun jumpers partake and jump. Possibly attributable to a few high-flare accidents ending in life-flights.

Is a chicken omelette redundant?

[rgoper 0]

NEVER.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[BBKid 0]

Not just never - I would tell someone of my suspicions. It's not telling tales, you're trying to save a life. If you saw someone's reserve pin was bent you would alert someone wouldn't you?

Nick
---------------------------
"I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!"

[D22369 0]

Would you jump with someone you suspected of being high?


--->NO.......I wouldnt, their impaired judgement might get me killed.......bad juju

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[beemertec 0]

Not a chance!

Blue Skies
Steve
Ok, so it's pink, but I'm secure in my manhood, and I still look cool coming in under it!

[skybytch 273]

But wouldn't you feel like an asshole if you vocally refused to jump with them, told them why and it turned out they really did have an eye infection?

What would you do if you found out after the skydive that they'd had a beer/smoked a joint/did a line/popped a pill before that jump?

How far would you take it? Refuse to be on the same skydive with them? Refuse to be on the same plane load? Refuse to be on the same dz?

[rgoper 0]

1) a "trained" observer can easily distinguish a person UTI and a person with an eye infection.
2) this one for me is simply not possible
3) i would refuse to be on the same skydive and load, but i wouldn't avoid the DZ because of their illegal substance abuse, unless they were in management, or jumpmasters, etc.

Illegal substances are just that, illegal. "Just Say "NO" To Drugs"

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[sunshine 2]

I wouldn't jump in the same formation with them, but i have been on a plane where i knew some of the people had been drinking beer that day. We were on a weather hold, a group of the regulars at that dz went out back and drank a few. A couple hours later, the weather cleared and they manifested. I did voice my concern to the freind i was with and she said not to worry about it cause they were really good. This did not happen at my home dz. It happenend at a dz i jump at a few times a year. Looking back on it, if it happens again i would definately go find the dzo's or at least tell manifest.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[billvon 3,049]

Someone who I knew was high? Definitely not. Someone I suspected? Would depend on who they were, how they acted, what kind of dive it was. If I didn't know them, and was organizing a 20-way at Rantoul, then they'd be off. If I'd jumped with them before and they _seemed_ fine, and we were doing a 4-way, I'd probably still jump with them - even if the rumor mill had them down as a pothead.

[skybytch 273]

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a "trained" observer can easily distinguish a person UTI and a person with an eye infection.

Educate those of us who aren't "trained observers." How can you tell if someone is high? Specific substances and symptoms would be helpful.

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this one for me is simply not possible

I'd put money down that anyone who's jumped at a large dz has been on a plane with someone who was under the influence of something.

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Illegal substances are just that, illegal.

Beer is legal in most places in the US. Certain non-prescription OTC drugs are legal but can affect your reaction times. Where do you draw the line?

[skycat 0]

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I wouldn't jump in the same formation with them, but i have been on a plane where i knew some of the people had been drinking beer that day. We were on a weather hold, a group of the regulars at that dz went out back and drank a few. A couple hours later, the weather cleared and they manifested. I did voice my concern to the freind i was with and she said not to worry about it cause they were really good. This did not happen at my home dz. It happenend at a dz i jump at a few times a year. Looking back on it, if it happens again i would definately go find the dzo's or at least tell manifest.

At couch freaks every year there are people drinking all day. Now while I don't jump with anyone who has been drinking during the day, it's kind of hard to tell at the loading tent if I'm on a load with someone who has.

Fly it like you stole it!

[quade 4]

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Would you jump with someone you suspected of being high?

Interesting question. I think if I suspected something I'd try to find out definatively before making any rash decisions.

I'm certain that I've jumped with people that have been high at the time. Not by my choice, but by my ignorance -- I simply didn't know.

I'm just as certain that I've avoided people that I was pretty sure were totally sober, but I've thought were just too flaky, unreliable and dangerous for me to be involved with.

And lastly, I know that some of those same people, the flakes and users both, can be trusted in certain circumstances and conditions.

Lastly, I'm not a cop. It's not my place to rat anybody out to the DZO, only to protect myself and them from hurting themselves if I am aware of it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Deuce 1]

Lisa, I'll trade you an 11550 H&S objective symptoms wallet card for a couple of those great big "Go-Fast" Stickers.

It's got this cool "Pupilometer" thing you hold up to people's eye to see if the pupil is too big or too small.

Usually if somebody is unconscious in a puddle of beer vomit, they've been drinking too much. Falling asleep in a porta potty with your bicep tied off and a needle in your arm is usually a pretty good indicator of heroin intoxication.

But not always. But the card thingie is still cool.

[AndyMan 7]

If I knew they were stoned? No. I'd tell them why, too.

If I suspected they were stoned? It would depend on how strong my suspicion was, and how complicated the jump was.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[sducoach 0]

Better safe than sorry. Any IUT cannot be accepted. I don't want someone killing me or others because skydiving was not enough. Rumor mill aside simply confront them if you are concerned.
I would like to know what California DZ you were at that allows it. I'm sorry to see any experienced skydiver condone this by ignoring or accepting it on any skydive.

James 4:8

[Michele 1]

Nope.

I don't need that worry and/or added risk, no matter how good they were/are. No matter how much I liked them. No matter what their reputation. If I suspected, I'd scratch.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[freeatlast 0]

No I wouldn't jump with someone who I knew was high ... In fact I'd do my best not to be on the same load ... Canopy collisions hurt !!!!

It's possible that I've been on a load where someone was high, but if I knew that they were I'd try to get off the load ...

If it was something I REALLY WANTED TO DO ... I'd try to get them taken off the load - Why should I miss out because of their POOR ATTITUDE ???

If someone wants to take something privately in the evening that's their choice but taking something at a time when it potentially endangers everyone on the load then its another matter ....

And in my opinion shouldn't be tolerated ...

[stylin 1]

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Better safe than sorry. Any IUT cannot be accepted. I don't want someone killing me or others because skydiving was not enough. Rumor mill aside simply confront them if you are concerned.
I would like to know what California DZ you were at that allows it. I'm sorry to see any experienced skydiver condone this by ignoring or accepting it on any skydive.

Welcome to California.

[skybytch 273]

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Lisa, I'll trade you an 11550 H&S objective symptoms wallet card for a couple of those great big "Go-Fast" Stickers.

Deal.

btw, my post above wasn't meant as an attack on Richard or anyone else. I'm honestly curious about how anyone can tell someone is under the influence, and how anyone can then tell exactly what that person is under the influence of.

Personally, I won't jump under the influence of any substance - illegal or legal - that affects my reactions or judgement. I even tend to stay on the ground the day after a long night of partying. But I'm not sure what I'd do if I knew without a doubt that someone I was jumping with was under the influence. I think it would depend on the person and the substance.

[Zenister 0]

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1) a "trained" observer can easily distinguish a person UTI and a person with an eye infection.
2) this one for me is simply not possible
3) i would refuse to be on the same skydive and load, but i wouldn't avoid the DZ because of their illegal substance abuse, unless they were in management, or jumpmasters, etc.

Illegal substances are just that, illegal. "Just Say "NO" To Drugs"

yeah right, whatever you say

its impossible to have a rational discussion on this issue. Far to much preconception and prejudice has already reared its ugly head, no doubt many reading this thread already characterize me as stoner and doper having never met me, soley based on my defense against the endless repetition of years of government propaganda as so eloquently illustrated here..

when in fact i would wager my blood and urine is more pure than most rabid anti drug nuts, who are simply ignorant of the amount of drugs in EVERYTHING they ingest, and seriously underestimate the perfectly normal people who are forced to lead secret lives because of those same ignorant attitudes..

how about someone with a bit more time and access to skydiving statistics look up the number of fatalities DIRECTLY attributable to drug use? or better yet lets give you the benefit of the doubt (that the hardline crowd refuses to do for anyone who disagrees with them) and just count those were drug use is suspected to be involved? and how many "innocent" bystanders were actually killed because of it???

i'm [sarcasm]sure[/sarcasm] the numbers will bear out your fanatical persecution and insistence that dangerous addicts are "continually falling from the sky endangering your children" :rollseyes:

a stupid poll on an grossly exaggerated issue that no one in opposition can really discuss openly for fear of the lynch mob...

i will simply say i have met bonified addicts in other fields whos judgment and reaction times i would gladly trust my life too and place against most completely sober individuals, so i would likely not have an issue jumping with someone i knew was high so long as i was certain of their skills otherwise, but then i judge people on their own merits, not on what substances they chose to partake of...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[rgoper 0]

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Educate those of us who aren't "trained observers." How can you tell if someone is high? Specific substances and symptoms would be helpful.

sure, no problem.
1) mj has a very strong and distinct smell, one that does not smoke anything can knock off this smell rather easily. even applying vast and copious amounts of cologne is a knock off.
2) amphetimines dialiate the pupils, and cause extreme heightned heart rates, and profuse sweating, not to mention slurred and hurried speach. i can ask someone three specific questions and figure out the rest for myself.
3) alchohol, well, this one is too easy, so i won't explain it.
4) cocaine has it's own side effects which include slurred speach, odd behaviour and erratic euphoria, all of which are easily observed visually. and i've seen a few individuals not even have the sense to wipe the residue off of their noses, and lips after coming out of the bathrooms.

this topic has been beaten to death. those who are going to, are going to, those that don't, won't. let's clarify the dangers of utilizing "recreatrional substances" and sky diving, it's not safe, these drugs alter motor skills when you have to be at the "top" of your game, and all senses must been keen, and sharp. it's idiotic to combine the two, unless you don't care about your safety, or the safety of others. not to mention, these drugs are against the law.

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Beer is legal in most places in the US.

true, but not during sky diving operations. as sky divers, we claim to be proffessionals, "smarter than the average bear" and yet we have disscussions like this, i just don't get it.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Zenister 0]

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1) mj has a very strong and distinct smell, one that does not smoke anything can knock off this smell rather easily. even applying vast and copious amounts of cologne is a knock off.
2) amphetimines dialiate the pupils, and cause extreme heightned heart rates, and profuse sweating, not to mention slurred and hurried speach. i can ask someone three specific questions and figure out the rest for myself.
3) alchohol, well, this one is too easy, so i won't explain it.
4) cocaine has it's own side effects which include slurred speach, odd behaviour and erratic euphoria, all of which are easily observed visually. and i've seen a few individuals not even have the sense to wipe the residue off of their noses, and lips after coming out of the bathrooms.

you watch far too many movies..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[rgoper 0]

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btw, my post above wasn't meant as an attack on Richard or anyone else.

no offense as far as i'm concerned Lisa.

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I'm honestly curious about how anyone can tell someone is under the influence, and how anyone can then tell exactly what that person is under the influence of.

see above post. to bring some reality to this subject, if you are UTI, and you get on a load, and cause or are instrumental in the injury and/or death of another sky diver, or their equipment, it can/could, and most likely will be tried just as a DUI. the legalities and "red tape" aren't worth it, and i'm sure incarceration and humiliation aren't either.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[sillythomas 0]

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as sky divers, we claim to be proffessionals, "smarter than the average bear" and yet we have disscussions like this, i just don't get it.

You and I have something in common. I don't get it either. When did we decide we were smarter than the average bear? I either did not get the memo, or was too high to remember the meeting. If I was smarter, would I pollute the air with burnt jet fuel and spend thousands just to fly nowhere?

[rgoper 0]

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you watch far too many movies..

negative, i've been through training just for this type of observational skill. in my line of work, if i notice someone UTI, and something happens, the buck stops with me, regardless of whether i had anything to do with whatever incident took place, i'm HNIC, i'm responseable, and i take it seriously. 28 years of experience helps as well.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"