I almost died today.

[vanessalh 0]

Great idea to switch focus to expecting to find a problem. Someone on fb mentioned to look for what is wrong not what is right. You're more likely to find what you're looking for after all :)

Yikes on your instructor missing that. Wow. Glad someone else caught it.

[ManagingPrime 0]

vanessalh

And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "overdramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Analyze and don't repeat.

Posting on DZ.com is a mixed bag. You can get valuable feedback if you can filter through the noise and you can share an experience that others can learn from. You can also elicit the ire of other jumpers who can view your post as over-dramatized or self-aggrandizing... it's a difficult medium for communication.

I could have created a thread about the "near death experience" I had today... no shit...I really thought I was going to buy the farm, but my mistake was on the level, worse actually, of misrouting a chest strap...noob. But, just like a misrouted chest strap there is not much to be learned by the "community" from my experience. I knew exactly what mistakes I made that lead up to that "near death experience" and that was enough for me and the other jumper who I endangered.

That said, don't take the heat from the post seriously. Anyone who is prone to posting online is going to get flamed from time to time.

You like to blog and that's cool, you just have to consider your audience... at least one of your respondents did almost die in a "no shit I woke up a month later" kind of way and I don't recall them posting about it on DZ.com. There are A LOT of incidents, if not the vast majority, that never made it on this board and most here are aware of that fact. Again, consider your audience....

In the end though, it's great that we are reading this "over dramatized" thread instead of reading an incident report.

[airtwardo 7]

vanessalh

Great idea to switch focus to expecting to find a problem. Someone on fb mentioned to look for what is wrong not what is right. You're more likely to find what you're looking for after all :)

Yikes on your instructor missing that. Wow. Glad someone else caught it.

My better half is a pilot who goes through training & check rides frequently...one of the best things I picked up from her is a statement they always make during the crew resource management discussions.

It's seems that 'when you have that funny feeling something isn't right - - more often than not, something IS wrong'

They encourage the crews to speak up, to start the routine over, to be more vigilante is the assessment of the aircraft...what ever it takes to get rid of that feeling.

I always keep the with me...if 'something' doesn't feel right - - -STOP and look hard.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Nataly 38]

ManagingPrime

***
And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "overdramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Analyze and don't repeat.

Posting on DZ.com is a mixed bag. You can get valuable feedback if you can filter through the noise and you can share an experience that others can learn from. You can also elicit the ire of other jumpers who can view your post as over-dramatized or self-aggrandizing... it's a difficult medium for communication.

I could have created a thread about the "near death experience" I had today... no shit...I really thought I was going to buy the farm, but my mistake was on the level, worse actually, of misrouting a chest strap...noob. But, just like a misrouted chest strap there is not much to be learned by the "community" from my experience. I knew exactly what mistakes I made that lead up to that "near death experience" and that was enough for me and the other jumper who I endangered.

That said, don't take the heat from the post seriously. Anyone who is prone to posting online is going to get flamed from time to time.

You like to blog and that's cool, you just have to consider your audience... at least one of your respondents did almost die in a "no shit I woke up a month later" kind of way and I don't recall them posting about it on DZ.com. There are A LOT of incidents, if not the vast majority, that never made it on this board and most here are aware of that fact. Again, consider your audience....

In the end though, it's great that we are reading this "over dramatized" thread instead of reading an incident report.
/\ /\ /\ THIS.

Poor choice of words (for this crowd). Like telling a room full of war-veterans about almost getting hurt...

Unfortunately, you can be right all day long, you will never "win" an argument just by being right - you have to also deliver the information in an effective maner. I suspect that the people minimising the event are reacting more to the "drama" than anything else - I don't think anyone really believes misrouting your chest-strap is no big deal (if they did, they wouldn't bother putting it on at all, and there would be a lot more posts in the Incidents forum!).

All things considered, a lot of people DO remember what it's like to be a newbie and for that reason HAVE made an effort to draw out the good stuff in your post. For example, Nigel99 nicely points out that routine, expected outcomes and complacency all play a role in making mistakes... I couldn't agree more. Like turning off the stove after cooking something... My mom regularly forgot this as she was absent-mindedly doing a million things at a time, and I'm SUPER paranoid about it as a result, because she once partially set fire to the kitchen... But I did come home once and my stove-top had been on all day!!! It happens. You can't do everything right every time. Occasionally, a good scare is the BEST way to learn because nothing bad happened, yet you still realised your mistake. Good for you for sharing; do consider your crowd, though.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[vanessalh 0]

:) Thanks ManagingPrime - always great to hear a little encouragement.

I don't take comments personally - after all, this is the Internet, if I took every comment personally I would have serious psychological issues within a few months ;)

I'll admit I was surprised at how quickly it turned negative on dz.com (as compared w/ responses from skydivers on fb -where I know ppl or g+ - where I don't know ppl).

I had always thought dz.com would be a great place for folks new to the sport to learn more. I know I had a ton of questions about skydiving when I started (still do) - why, how, when, etc. and was interested to get perspectives of the broader skydiving community.

I'm discovering that mixed in with the thoughtful and well reasoned responses there is a lot of replies that go something like, "you should already know this, why are you asking?" or "that's nothing special" or in a response to a question seeking to learn a new technique "don't do this you'll die - without further explanation". Along with a lot of folks who never seem to make a mistake, and an equal number who deride people who do admit to mistakes.

Thankfully I don't see this as much at the dropzone in person, but where I do it can make the sport feel intimidating and unwelcoming.

I'll keep sharing my experiences, and doing my best to make skydiving an approachable and safe sport for everyone. I'm hopeful that some of the threads I've seen in the last year are not representative of the general tone here.

[vanessalh 0]

airtwardo

It's seems that 'when you have that funny feeling something isn't right - - more often than not, something IS wrong'

So true - often your unconscious mind will perceive something still on the edge of consciousness. My boyfriend told me about a time he was on the plane and got this funny feeling. He ended up landing with the plane, and on unpacking his main noticed a line over.

[jurgencamps 0]

The lesson is that we all will make mistakes. This is something we have to accept.
Those who state that they never will make this or another mistake, will never learn THE lesson.
The lesson is: it is very important to have a system to find the mistake, before it poses a problem. Check before you board and check before you jump.
Thx for sharing your story.
Gr
Jurgen

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Those who state that they never will make this or another mistake, will never learn THE lesson.
The lesson is: it is very important to have a system to find the mistake, before it poses a problem.

OR...maybe they already know 'THE' lesson and they HAVE such a system in place -

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Greell 0]

This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

If you're in free fall and you notice your chest strap undone or incorrectly routed....when you go to pull....pitch, grab your elbows (crossing your arms, hand to elbow) and look up (to not pitch downward causing bad stability)

Remember that a chest strap is NOT designed to be a load bearing strap. You can easily survive such a mistake, if you make it, and you notice it in time. Ideally the plan is "Don't make this mistake"....but it can happen.

[nigel99 466]

Greell

This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

Actually I think this misses an important part of the lesson that could be learnt. Doing gear checks with the wrong mindset is as bad as not doing them at all.

It's interesting how 'obvious' things slip past us - a brilliant example is this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JackC1 0]

vanessalh

I'm hopeful that some of the threads I've seen in the last year are not representative of the general tone here.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate

[vanessalh 0]

JackC1

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate

Haha :) There is always hope :)

[devildog 0]

Nataly

******
And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "overdramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Analyze and don't repeat.

Posting on DZ.com is a mixed bag. You can get valuable feedback if you can filter through the noise and you can share an experience that others can learn from. You can also elicit the ire of other jumpers who can view your post as over-dramatized or self-aggrandizing... it's a difficult medium for communication.

I could have created a thread about the "near death experience" I had today... no shit...I really thought I was going to buy the farm, but my mistake was on the level, worse actually, of misrouting a chest strap...noob. But, just like a misrouted chest strap there is not much to be learned by the "community" from my experience. I knew exactly what mistakes I made that lead up to that "near death experience" and that was enough for me and the other jumper who I endangered.

That said, don't take the heat from the post seriously. Anyone who is prone to posting online is going to get flamed from time to time.

You like to blog and that's cool, you just have to consider your audience... at least one of your respondents did almost die in a "no shit I woke up a month later" kind of way and I don't recall them posting about it on DZ.com. There are A LOT of incidents, if not the vast majority, that never made it on this board and most here are aware of that fact. Again, consider your audience....

In the end though, it's great that we are reading this "over dramatized" thread instead of reading an incident report.
/\ /\ /\ THIS.

Poor choice of words (for this crowd). Like telling a room full of war-veterans about almost getting hurt...

Good analogy.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[normiss 798]

I can't wait for his response.

[airtwardo 7]

normiss

I can't wait for his response.

Yeah...prolly the wrong guy to ask that to huh?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Nataly 38]

nigel99

***This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

Actually I think this misses an important part of the lesson that could be learnt. Doing gear checks with the wrong mindset is as bad as not doing them at all.

It's interesting how 'obvious' things slip past us - a brilliant example is this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo


Nthr gd xmpl s tht y cn prbbly rd ths txt vn thgh ll th vwls r mssng... Jst gs t shw hw gd w r t sng wht w wnt t s...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[3mpire 0]

don't be so dramatic

[Greell 0]

nigel99

***This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

Actually I think this misses an important part of the lesson that could be learnt. Doing gear checks with the wrong mindset is as bad as not doing them at all.

It's interesting how 'obvious' things slip past us - a brilliant example is this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

Depends on your mindset? What was yours?...my mindset is....do a gear check. I don't think it's any more complicated than that. Selective attention isn't ENTIRELY applicable because you're gearing up, checking your gear, and getting on a load....if you want to throw more variables in the mix...you're talking to other people, and maybe a dirt dive. Maybe you're even in a rush to get to a now-call.

You're not balancing on a high beam, while helicopters are swooping down with machine guns firing at you, and the building is on fire.

There isn't much going on when you are gearing up...just do the damn gear check.

Also, like I said (to cover my own ass)..." Ideally the plan is "Don't make this mistake"....but it can happen. "

Not saying you don't have a point....i'm just saying, lets not over complicate it.

Do your gear checks.

[Liemberg 0]

On checking stuff: Once upon a time I found myself cheking a Strong Dual Hawk tandem rig that has a strickt set of rules 'what to do in what order'.

On reaching opening altitude you must:

1) release drogue with Master ripcord
2) If drogue not released pull passenger ripcord
3) If drogue still not released pull silver/reserve

As it happened. someone called my name and asked me a question right in the middle of that check.

Later on in the narrative I pulled the Master drogue release but kept speeding towards 'terra firma' - the drogue would not release.

Faster than I am able to write this down i said to myself: 'both loops on the passengers ripcord in stead of one loop on each ripcord cannot possibly be the problem for I distinctly remember pulling the drogue attachment out and visualy checking it -so there's no need to go for the passengers ripcord!'

I DEVIATED FROM PRESCRIBED PROCEDURES,SINCE I WAS ABSOLUTLY SURE ABOUT WHAT COULD AND COULD NOT BE HAPPENING.

In stead I went directly for silver (duh...)

Guess what...

The trouble with routinely checking the same thing again and again and again is that you tend to not actually observe what is right in front of your eyes but see (or should I say 'halucinate'?) what you are expecting to see...

There is a lesson somewhere in the above...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Not saying you don't have a point....i'm just saying, lets not over complicate it.

Do your gear checks.

Yup...it's not Rocket Surgery, make sure the parachute is in working order and is on right.

When you get down to the heart of the matter...that's REALLY what the FIRST priority HAS to be in order to survive freefall.

I check my pins, handles & hardware before putting it on.

I check the handles & hardware before boarding the plane.

I do 3 checks of 3's while IN the aircraft - one - prior to takeoff, two - at a grand when the seatbelts are removed & #3 - again once more on jumprun.

Been doing it that way since I started Skydiving, think about what you're doing any why - - what the consequences are for missing something important.

THAT tends to get it prioritized correctly & that the proper attention given.

~ If as in the OP's case, something was caught early - good, I would sit & think hard about why 'something' other than the #1 priority got in the mix.

I think she's done that with the thread & blog...kinda doubt she'll LET herself make that mistake again.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[vanessalh 0]

airtwardo

~ If as in the OP's case, something was caught early - good, I would sit & think hard about why 'something' other than the #1 priority got in the mix.

I think she's done that with the thread & blog...kinda doubt she'll LET herself make that mistake again.

Yup, I've got a world of other mistakes waiting to be made, but I think I'm through with this one :)

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

Hi Greell,

Quote

Remember that a chest strap is NOT designed to be a load bearing strap.

I could not disagree more with this.

People have died because of undone chest straps and chest straps that have torn out on opening.

If a chest strap can tear out on opening then it is taking a fair amount of the opening forces.

If you really believe this, why do you hook up your chest strap before you jump?



JerryBaumchen

[billvon 2,990]

>If you really believe this, why do you hook up your chest strap before you jump?

It decreases the odds of falling out of my rig. And it keeps the end of the chest strap from flapping around and annoying me.

[beeman 0]

Greell

Depends on your mindset? What was yours?...my mindset is....do a gear check. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

I think I get what he's trying to say, and if I'm right then I agree with Nigel. There's a third option - do an insufficient gear check.

What I mean is things like tugging on a chest strap and calling it good. I agree with Nigel and think it's entirely possible to misroute it and have it pass that test. Two seconds of looking carefully at the adapter and you KNOW it's good. That said, I actually do both, many times before I leave the plane.

How many people that normally gear check have you seen throw a rig on for a now call and glance over everything without a pin check? How many of those people slept most of the way up? I've seen at least a few in 54 jumps. How many don't check handles before the door opens?

The notion that your brain is capable of filling in some pretty big gaps is absolutely correct. Bringing it back to the original point, the mindset difference is carefully to do the entire gear check, multiple times because you know the assumption that you caught everything and nothing has changed can very easily be wrong.

it's pretty much the same as saying your mindset is DO a gear check, but there is an attitude there, even if a simple one.

well...I was going skydiving anyway. let's go.
Earn your pancakes.

[diablopilot 2]

airtwardo

Quote

And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "over-dramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Good question ~ I'll let you know when I have one.

Ditto to that....

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.