Hooknswoop 19 #1 March 13, 2003 What would you do if: 1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? 13. You witness a rigger pack a Seat bailout rig, but does not have a Seat rating, only a Back rating? 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie? Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grasshopper 0 #2 March 13, 2003 QuoteWhat would you do if: 1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? theoretically, find a new dz. really, I'd jump. 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? take it as an indication of how the dz is run. see answer to #1. 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? out of date reserves are not automatically unsafe. hope he doesn't do anything stupid to warrant the faa to notice. 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? find a new dz. I have done it before. 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? see answer to #4 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? not jump with that pilot, or find a new dz. 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? find new dz. tell the dzo why he is losing my business. 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? not go on the jump, and keep a close eye on the pilot from then on. 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? unless the wings are falling off, stay in the plane if I can't see ground. I used to get out anyway, but I am wiser now. 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? find a new rigger and get a new repack asap. talk to the rigger to let him know why he is losing your business. 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? spot for traffic. 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? talk to the dzo, and probably find a new dz. 13. You witness a rigger pack a Seat bailout rig, but does not have a Seat rating, only a Back rating? talk to the rigger, and not give him any business. 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? on the canopies I jump, the impact would likely kill me, but if I was stuck in a tree, wait for help. 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? I don't do hard toggle turns ever, and don't toggle turn low often, but I would do my normal front riser approach, and do a rear riser landing. hopefully, I won't try to transistion to toggles out of habit. 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? at most dz's I would ask them to buckle up. at lodi, I left because most people didn't use seat belts. I won't be going back to lodi anytime soon. 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? at my home dz, ask him to secure his helmet. at other dz's I usually just ignore it and hope for the best. 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie? I don't worry about it. if he dies, the faa should recognize the pilot was shown proof of a repack, and lay blame on the jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #3 March 13, 2003 QuoteWhat would you do if: 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? Hook For one, he's a dumbass for telling you/letting you watch him do this, putting you in danger, putting others in danger, etc. I would notify the FAA imediatley. If he would do this, what else would he do that isn't completley right? Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MattM 0 #4 March 13, 2003 Quote What would you do if: 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? Hook You decide if you jump or not. Give him the finger. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #5 March 13, 2003 QuoteWhat would you do if: 1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? Bump off the load. I know it's wimpy, but I'm not my brother's keeper on that one, and no one at the dz would not know what was going on. I might tell a student EDIT TO ADD (what I mean here is very low number jumper, who we call students at our dz even after they are off student status) to wait one out with me, though. 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? Nothing. 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? Jump with him. 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? Freak out. That's some bs that I do not sign up for when I buy a jump ticket. Seeing this might actually end my skydiving career. 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? See #4. 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? Nothing. 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? I do not know enough about this one. I would ask the pilot if all the insturments still work without the battery. TO be frank, if the pilot is cool, I'd be cool. I trust the pilot a lot to do the right thing with regard to the airplane. But I'm spoiled by pilots whom I know do the right things. 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? No participato in jumpo. No visito DZo no mo. 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? Wait. 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? Remind him of his error and have him get them replaced. Jump with Cypres off until replaced. 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? See #4. 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? I would take this as an indication that he was loose with the rules and quit going there. 13. You witness a rigger pack a Seat bailout rig, but does not have a Seat rating, only a Back rating? Tell him I thought that was bs. 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? Hang tight until someone gets there. At 20 ft., no way am I gonig to cut away and drop. 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? 1.Defecate. 2.Drop other toggle. 3.Too late to chop so land it on rears. 4.PLF. 5.Defecate again. 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? Tell them to put them on. I like seatbelts in planes. They keep you from crushing me. 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? Ask him to put it on. Missile. 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie? Nothing. Hook Good questions, Hook. I answered honestly, and it appears that my "dz ethics" are not as good as I would like them to be. I have not read any other responses yet, and you can be sure that as soon as I hit "Post", I will read some others and learn something. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyIvan 0 #6 March 13, 2003 Quote 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? I'd politely smile at him and say in a well mannered voice: After you, Sir. __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BoobieCootie 0 #7 March 13, 2003 Quote 1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? Either his angry wife is after him, or it's the INS. Get ready for a road trip. Quote 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? Jump it as a main? (with a belly mounted reserve attached of course) Quote 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? See #2 Quote 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? Have him forge signatures to get me my D license and PRO rating, and instructor's rating, and rigger rating while he's at it. Quote 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? Tell him it would have been easier to fly the plane backwards anyway. Quote 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? Well... his Viagra just ran out, so... get some hotties to show him (o)(o) for the extra alti! Quote 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? Tell him it's easier to crank it once in the morning and keep it running. Quote 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? I'd be surprised if they even made it to the plane. Quote 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? I should have cleared my foggy goggles. Quote 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? Take the rig for a BASE jump Quote 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? Tell him to hang up the chit chat with his nagging "whatever" Quote 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? Wait... My DZO has every rating there is to get Quote 13. You witness a rigger pack a Seat bailout rig, but does not have a Seat rating, only a Back rating? Tell whoever's gonna be wearing that rig to wear it higher than he normally would. Quote 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? Expect to stay up there a little longer because you're gonna be in the X'mas video Quote 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? Damn! I can't think of a come back for this one Quote 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? How come buses don't offer seat belts? Quote 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? No one's gonna see my cool jump because he left it in the hangar. Quote 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie? Blackmail him into buying me all my jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #8 March 13, 2003 Way too many freekin' questions to answer point-by-point, but I think in 99% of the incidents I'd first talk to the person involved to see if I really understood what I believed was going on was actually going on. Then an escalation of questions to higher authorities is probably in order. For instance, in question #1 maybe the pilot flying didn't pre-flight, but maybe another pilot did. Depends on the DZ. Not exactly 100 percent by the book, but acceptable under certain circumstances. So, maybe a question to the pilot flying is in order and if I don't buy that answer, then maybe question the Chief Pilot or DZ manager or DZO. Again, it all depends on the DZ. If it's a single plane DZ with only one pilot/DZO, then see ya later! Or in question #9; Quote 9. On jump run, you are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? There are times when jumping -through- a cloud can be performed with an acceptable amount of risk. However, exiting the aircraft while -IN- a cloud is unacceptable under just about any circumstance other than an emergency. Again, this would trigger an automatic questioning of the people telling me to get out and a later discussion in depth when back on the ground. I mean, technically, the pilot shouldn't even be in a cloud during skydiving ops -- right?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #9 March 13, 2003 hmmm, these questions can be divided into groups: 1. stupid people that make stupid decisions that put only them in danger --> talk to them, make sure they understand its stupid, and then let them be. its their lives. 2. stupid decisions that can put others in danger --> talk to them and if it doesn't help, point it out to who ever in charge 3. really stupid people whos stupid decisions are criminal behavior (DZO Pilot issues) --> after talking to them, stop jumping there and make it public. if a DZO skips safety protocols (and that includes making sure the pilot & plane are fit) the only place for him/her is in jail. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygod7777 0 #10 March 13, 2003 Quote1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? i'd stay on the ground, but i wouldn't do any more than that. IE, i wouldn't go snich on anyone for it. Quote2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? i'd still go. then that is the pilot that would die first, and it's his license. i would say something to him though. Quote3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? i would make sure he didn't get on the load, somehow. Quote4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? i'd be asking some questions on why it didn't happen. like if it was just a bit out, and there was a busy weekend coming up, and didn't have time, i can understand that, to go a bit over Quote5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? well, that would kinda go back to # 4. it is wrong to disconnect it, but depending on if he had a good reason, i would still go. but again, i wouldn't go to the FAA about it. Quote 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? i'd still go. 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? Quote i'd still go. once the engine is on, it doesn't use the battery any more. 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? Quote well, depending on how long it's been for the pilot. it is at least 8 hours or something like that for 1 boddle of beer, and same for the jumper. other wise, i would try to stop them, but i wouldn't turn anyone in. 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? Quote well, if the pilot is saying go because his gps says there over the spot, and is just leting us go, i'd sit back down, and ride down, and not say a word about it. but, if he said for us to get out because of something was wrong with the plane, hell ya, i'm out. but you didn't specify for this question really. 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? Quote i would go buy new ones, and have them replaced and make sure there was no charge for opening the rig back up, because he should of found it, and replaced it, but since i'm my own rigger, i would just replace them myself 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? Quote i'd find out why, and if there was a good reason, and he said it was safe, i'd still jump. but if he had some shady reason, like he just doesn't want to, i would sit on the ground. 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? Quote well, i'm a rigger, so i would just go supervise. otherwise, i would pull him off to the side, and find out what the hell is going on. 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? Quote well, first i wouldn't hit the tree, but if i did, i would stay until someone came and got me. 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? Quote if i'm at 500 feet doing a hard toggle turn, i got other things to worry about too, because i'm alread going to pound in with my canopy. now, under something else, i would hopefully think to grab rears. 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? Quote i simply ask them to put on there seat belt. and every time this has happened that i've said something, they have. 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? Quote well, if your on take off already, you can't do much, but maybe ask him to put it on, or seatbelt it in. 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie?*** if it was my signature, i'd charge em 40 bucks for a repack, even though i didn't pack it, just to make it so he would go get it packed. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites betzilla 56 #11 March 13, 2003 Quote1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? I would SO get off that load and avoid that pilot, maybe even that DZ. Quote4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? As though that kind of thing doesn't actually happen..? One of the things I love about my DZ is that the planes are maintained religiously. I hate the thought of making a forced skydive because of shoddy maintenance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #12 March 13, 2003 I actaully did #9 jsut the other week...hop and pop and was given the ok to go..climbed out on the strut facing the back so I didnt see what was ahead of me...next thing I know nothing but white all around ...so ..I jumped ....AWSOME feeling but I dont condone it!! ...I later found out that what happened by talking to the pilot is that he put me a a good spot to avoid the cloud however when I climbed out I wanted to make my spot longer so I stayed on the wing a little longer...at that point I couldnt see the cloud ahead of me ... so there is no one to blame but myself...the pilot called a perfect spot...I decided to wait outside the A/C ...again bad call on my part ...but HOLY SHIT WHAT AN AWSOMW SENSATION!!!(sp)jason Freedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,009 #13 March 13, 2003 >7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it >and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? >I'd still go. once the engine is on, it doesn't use the battery any more. Unfortunately, engines sometimes fail. Without a battery you then lose radios, transponder, flaps (usually) electrical instruments and sometimes trim. It's a pretty unreasonable risk to take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #14 March 13, 2003 As always... I'd SHUT UP & JUMP! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,009 #15 March 13, 2003 Several of these (2, 3, 4, 5, 6) put the pilot at risk, and as long as he understands the risk to his ticket, that's his decision to make. Some of these (1, 7, 8, 9, 11, 16, 17) are risks that the jumpers face, and if the problem was egregious I'd get off the load and find another DZ - and tell the rest of the DZ why I was leaving. Specifics: 10. If your rig is 'legal' (i.e. signed off and sealed) and you are aware of its condition (even if there is a minor problem with it) then you get to decide if you want to take that risk or not - it's your life. 12/13. If a rigger is doing work he is not qualified for, I would make sure the person using him understood that. Once they do it is there decision to make. 14. If I was in a tree like that, I'd try to get to a branch or the trunk, cut away, and climb down. If the tree was unclimbable or I couldn't reach the branch I would hang out until someone found me. 15. The way I land I would drop the other toggle and grab the rear riser, but then I don't toggle turn hard enough to need toggles to recover before impact. And get ready to PLF blah blah. 18. Well, if he's a rigger, then it's a non issue. If he's just some guy I didn't know, and the forgery was awful, I'd tell him to think about what could happen to the pilot, and then tell the pilot if he was obstinate. If I knew him well enough to know how he cared for his gear, and his forgery would pass, I would lecture him a bit but not tell the pilot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #16 March 13, 2003 in each of the 18 points you brought up i would rely on my training. i was fortunate enough to have some of the best. i like to think that our instructors and coaches are integral enough to do the right thing all of the time. i have witnessed major violations at one dz in particular, i haven't been there since no matter how big a "country club" it is. i will not fly, or sky dive under any but the most compliant of circumstances. i make it my business to research a dz before i jump there. most dzo's try to do the right thing, until it's $$$ over lives clouding their vision. but being informed makes a huge difference in the safety of our sport. this is an excellent post as it brought more than one thing to my attention i haven't been watching for. thanks!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #17 March 13, 2003 1. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? QuoteNot go...Perris crash comes to mind. 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? QuoteI don't care...It's his life, and his ticket 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date QuoteI loan him my data card, or one of my rigs 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? QuoteAsk...WTF!?!?!?! And depending on the situation decide if I will jump there. 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer QuoteBigger issue than the other.....I would have a problem with this one. I have pencil packed a reserve, but this is showing intent to not do MX on the plane for as long as possible. 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? QuoteAsk WTF?!?!?! But unless it was TAKEN from him...I'd jump. The battery in the aircraft is bad Quotenot jump OK I am tired of this...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickfri59 0 #18 March 14, 2003 Quote The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? I've never seen a leaking battery, but from what I have seen, I thought the only way to spin-up the Otter was with a jump cart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #19 March 14, 2003 Quote . . . I thought the only way to spin-up the Otter was with a jump cart. Even I know that there are more jumpable aircraft out there than -just- Twin Otters. My guess is that -most- jump aircraft have on-board batteries. Certainly C-182s do.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygod7777 0 #20 March 14, 2003 Quote >7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it >and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? >I'd still go. once the engine is on, it doesn't use the battery any more. Unfortunately, engines sometimes fail. Without a battery you then lose radios, transponder, flaps (usually) electrical instruments and sometimes trim. It's a pretty unreasonable risk to take. and i totally agree with you, but we are talking about a jump plane. it goes in circles in like a 5 mile radious (just guessing here, i have no clue, but not far anyway) and if the engine were to go out, ok, well, you loose radio, and transponder, ya, but you just circle back down onto the field. i mean how many dz's are really that busy. i'm not to sure what jump airplanes use electric for trim. the flaps, yes, but flaps are not required for landing, helpful yes, but you don't need them (well, if it's a short runway yes). and the likely hood that a dzo would do this is kinda slim, right. a lot of these questions have a slim chance of ever happening. but they could. and remember, just because i do things one way doesn't mean you have to. anyone who answers here, it's just there opinion, and everyone has a right to state there opinion (well, maybe not a complete right on here, but kinda ) later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spidermonky 0 #21 March 14, 2003 Quote 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? Is this something I should look out for? I've never really thought of it as being a problem because I see it all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #22 March 14, 2003 QuoteIs this something I should look out for? Imagine you're sitting in the front of the plane on takeoff and it comes to an abrupt stop -- like maybe somebody decided it would be a good time to cross the runway and the pilot slammed on the brakes. Or worse, the plane for some reason crashes just after takeoff (it's been known to happen). Based on what you know about inertia, what do you think that 10 pounds of unsecured camera helmet is going to do?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtval 0 #23 March 14, 2003 geez thats alot of shit! I would definitely move dz's. Im guess this is a hypothetical situation! but i f I saw THAT MUCH crap goin on all in one day I would gfeel compelled to talk to the DZO and tell him/her if they dont get thier shit together I will make sure someone else does! I dont wanna see more of our family die for lack of respect for our fellow jumpers!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #24 March 14, 2003 Quote 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt This happened to me at elsinore were I got in the plane , was sitting along the back and a girl told me to either put my helmut on or fasten it... hell.. she was polite and nice about and it was no big deal .. i said even said thanks... Things are only a big deal if you make them that!! Just correct your mistakes thank the person that reminded you and jump on!!jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RevJim 0 #25 March 14, 2003 1. I don't get in the plane, period. 2. Pilot's choice. Remind the pilot and owner of it, and go jump. 3. Personal choice. How out of date? 2 days or 2 years? It makes a difference to me. 4. Let my opinion be known then vote with my feet. 5. Same as #4, walk. 6. Same as #4. 7. Same as #1. 8. Theory, Tell them what I think-You fuckin crazy? reality, I've done it. 9. Keep my mouth shut. The pilot told me to get out of his plane. For all i know this could be an emergency situation. Pilot is in command, so i'm leaving. 10. Return it to rigger, and have him remove the AAD (How did that get in there anyway?). 11. Remind pilot that it's his certificate on the line. 12. Warn the DZO and glider pilot, ask to see the reserve card, and warn the rigger whos name and symbol were forged, if present. Pull handle? 13. Warn rigger, probably pull handle too. 14. Wait for help. 15. Drop both toggle and go straight to rear risers, hopefully in time to save my life. (Note, do not toggle turn to final, use risers) 16. Tell them to buckle in. That's usually all it takes. 17. Kinda late now, but hopefully it's secured at least to his chest strap. 18. How out of date, and did he call his rigger? This ultimately lies on the riggers shoulders, since his seal is on the rig.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
MattM 0 #3 March 13, 2003 QuoteWhat would you do if: 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? Hook For one, he's a dumbass for telling you/letting you watch him do this, putting you in danger, putting others in danger, etc. I would notify the FAA imediatley. If he would do this, what else would he do that isn't completley right? Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #4 March 13, 2003 Quote What would you do if: 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? Hook You decide if you jump or not. Give him the finger. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #5 March 13, 2003 QuoteWhat would you do if: 1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? Bump off the load. I know it's wimpy, but I'm not my brother's keeper on that one, and no one at the dz would not know what was going on. I might tell a student EDIT TO ADD (what I mean here is very low number jumper, who we call students at our dz even after they are off student status) to wait one out with me, though. 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? Nothing. 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? Jump with him. 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? Freak out. That's some bs that I do not sign up for when I buy a jump ticket. Seeing this might actually end my skydiving career. 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? See #4. 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? Nothing. 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? I do not know enough about this one. I would ask the pilot if all the insturments still work without the battery. TO be frank, if the pilot is cool, I'd be cool. I trust the pilot a lot to do the right thing with regard to the airplane. But I'm spoiled by pilots whom I know do the right things. 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? No participato in jumpo. No visito DZo no mo. 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? Wait. 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? Remind him of his error and have him get them replaced. Jump with Cypres off until replaced. 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? See #4. 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? I would take this as an indication that he was loose with the rules and quit going there. 13. You witness a rigger pack a Seat bailout rig, but does not have a Seat rating, only a Back rating? Tell him I thought that was bs. 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? Hang tight until someone gets there. At 20 ft., no way am I gonig to cut away and drop. 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? 1.Defecate. 2.Drop other toggle. 3.Too late to chop so land it on rears. 4.PLF. 5.Defecate again. 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? Tell them to put them on. I like seatbelts in planes. They keep you from crushing me. 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? Ask him to put it on. Missile. 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie? Nothing. Hook Good questions, Hook. I answered honestly, and it appears that my "dz ethics" are not as good as I would like them to be. I have not read any other responses yet, and you can be sure that as soon as I hit "Post", I will read some others and learn something. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #6 March 13, 2003 Quote 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? I'd politely smile at him and say in a well mannered voice: After you, Sir. __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #7 March 13, 2003 Quote 1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? Either his angry wife is after him, or it's the INS. Get ready for a road trip. Quote 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? Jump it as a main? (with a belly mounted reserve attached of course) Quote 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? See #2 Quote 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? Have him forge signatures to get me my D license and PRO rating, and instructor's rating, and rigger rating while he's at it. Quote 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? Tell him it would have been easier to fly the plane backwards anyway. Quote 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? Well... his Viagra just ran out, so... get some hotties to show him (o)(o) for the extra alti! Quote 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? Tell him it's easier to crank it once in the morning and keep it running. Quote 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? I'd be surprised if they even made it to the plane. Quote 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? I should have cleared my foggy goggles. Quote 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? Take the rig for a BASE jump Quote 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? Tell him to hang up the chit chat with his nagging "whatever" Quote 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? Wait... My DZO has every rating there is to get Quote 13. You witness a rigger pack a Seat bailout rig, but does not have a Seat rating, only a Back rating? Tell whoever's gonna be wearing that rig to wear it higher than he normally would. Quote 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? Expect to stay up there a little longer because you're gonna be in the X'mas video Quote 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? Damn! I can't think of a come back for this one Quote 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? How come buses don't offer seat belts? Quote 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? No one's gonna see my cool jump because he left it in the hangar. Quote 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie? Blackmail him into buying me all my jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 March 13, 2003 Way too many freekin' questions to answer point-by-point, but I think in 99% of the incidents I'd first talk to the person involved to see if I really understood what I believed was going on was actually going on. Then an escalation of questions to higher authorities is probably in order. For instance, in question #1 maybe the pilot flying didn't pre-flight, but maybe another pilot did. Depends on the DZ. Not exactly 100 percent by the book, but acceptable under certain circumstances. So, maybe a question to the pilot flying is in order and if I don't buy that answer, then maybe question the Chief Pilot or DZ manager or DZO. Again, it all depends on the DZ. If it's a single plane DZ with only one pilot/DZO, then see ya later! Or in question #9; Quote 9. On jump run, you are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? There are times when jumping -through- a cloud can be performed with an acceptable amount of risk. However, exiting the aircraft while -IN- a cloud is unacceptable under just about any circumstance other than an emergency. Again, this would trigger an automatic questioning of the people telling me to get out and a later discussion in depth when back on the ground. I mean, technically, the pilot shouldn't even be in a cloud during skydiving ops -- right?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #9 March 13, 2003 hmmm, these questions can be divided into groups: 1. stupid people that make stupid decisions that put only them in danger --> talk to them, make sure they understand its stupid, and then let them be. its their lives. 2. stupid decisions that can put others in danger --> talk to them and if it doesn't help, point it out to who ever in charge 3. really stupid people whos stupid decisions are criminal behavior (DZO Pilot issues) --> after talking to them, stop jumping there and make it public. if a DZO skips safety protocols (and that includes making sure the pilot & plane are fit) the only place for him/her is in jail. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #10 March 13, 2003 Quote1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? i'd stay on the ground, but i wouldn't do any more than that. IE, i wouldn't go snich on anyone for it. Quote2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? i'd still go. then that is the pilot that would die first, and it's his license. i would say something to him though. Quote3. Your friend's reserve is out of date and he wants to go make a jump with you, and use his out-of-date rig (you don't have a spare available for him top use)? i would make sure he didn't get on the load, somehow. Quote4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? i'd be asking some questions on why it didn't happen. like if it was just a bit out, and there was a busy weekend coming up, and didn't have time, i can understand that, to go a bit over Quote5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? well, that would kinda go back to # 4. it is wrong to disconnect it, but depending on if he had a good reason, i would still go. but again, i wouldn't go to the FAA about it. Quote 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? i'd still go. 7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? Quote i'd still go. once the engine is on, it doesn't use the battery any more. 8. The winds pick up in the afternoon and jumping stops. A few people have started drinking, including the pilot. The winds calm in the evening and a few of your friends want to make a sunset jump, and the pilot agrees to fly? Quote well, depending on how long it's been for the pilot. it is at least 8 hours or something like that for 1 boddle of beer, and same for the jumper. other wise, i would try to stop them, but i wouldn't turn anyone in. 9. On jump run, your are in a cloud, nothing but white in every direction, the pilot, turns and yells for you to go? Quote well, if the pilot is saying go because his gps says there over the spot, and is just leting us go, i'd sit back down, and ride down, and not say a word about it. but, if he said for us to get out because of something was wrong with the plane, hell ya, i'm out. but you didn't specify for this question really. 10. Your rigger returns your rig to you, but did not replace you AAD batteries that have expired? Quote i would go buy new ones, and have them replaced and make sure there was no charge for opening the rig back up, because he should of found it, and replaced it, but since i'm my own rigger, i would just replace them myself 11. You become aware that the pilot is not calling Air Traffic Approach before dropping jumpers? Quote i'd find out why, and if there was a good reason, and he said it was safe, i'd still jump. but if he had some shady reason, like he just doesn't want to, i would sit on the ground. 12. You witness your DZO pack a reserve for a local glider pilot without a rigger's ticket or the supervision of a rigger? Quote well, i'm a rigger, so i would just go supervise. otherwise, i would pull him off to the side, and find out what the hell is going on. 14. You land off, in a tree, 20 feet above the ground? Quote well, first i wouldn't hit the tree, but if i did, i would stay until someone came and got me. 15. At 500ft you initiate a hard toggle turn, and your steering line breaks? Quote if i'm at 500 feet doing a hard toggle turn, i got other things to worry about too, because i'm alread going to pound in with my canopy. now, under something else, i would hopefully think to grab rears. 16. During taxi, you notice two jumpers without their seat belts on, or only draped over their leg? Quote i simply ask them to put on there seat belt. and every time this has happened that i've said something, they have. 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? Quote well, if your on take off already, you can't do much, but maybe ask him to put it on, or seatbelt it in. 18. Your friend "pencil-packs" his reserve when he discovers it is out of date on the first day of a big boogie?*** if it was my signature, i'd charge em 40 bucks for a repack, even though i didn't pack it, just to make it so he would go get it packed. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #11 March 13, 2003 Quote1. You showed up to the DZ early, before the pilot. The pilot calls and tells the DZO he is running a little late. A load has formed, geared up and is waiting on the pilot. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? I would SO get off that load and avoid that pilot, maybe even that DZ. Quote4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer to prevent the meter from showing that the 100-hour inspection is past due? As though that kind of thing doesn't actually happen..? One of the things I love about my DZ is that the planes are maintained religiously. I hate the thought of making a forced skydive because of shoddy maintenance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #12 March 13, 2003 I actaully did #9 jsut the other week...hop and pop and was given the ok to go..climbed out on the strut facing the back so I didnt see what was ahead of me...next thing I know nothing but white all around ...so ..I jumped ....AWSOME feeling but I dont condone it!! ...I later found out that what happened by talking to the pilot is that he put me a a good spot to avoid the cloud however when I climbed out I wanted to make my spot longer so I stayed on the wing a little longer...at that point I couldnt see the cloud ahead of me ... so there is no one to blame but myself...the pilot called a perfect spot...I decided to wait outside the A/C ...again bad call on my part ...but HOLY SHIT WHAT AN AWSOMW SENSATION!!!(sp)jason Freedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #13 March 13, 2003 >7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it >and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? >I'd still go. once the engine is on, it doesn't use the battery any more. Unfortunately, engines sometimes fail. Without a battery you then lose radios, transponder, flaps (usually) electrical instruments and sometimes trim. It's a pretty unreasonable risk to take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #14 March 13, 2003 As always... I'd SHUT UP & JUMP! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #15 March 13, 2003 Several of these (2, 3, 4, 5, 6) put the pilot at risk, and as long as he understands the risk to his ticket, that's his decision to make. Some of these (1, 7, 8, 9, 11, 16, 17) are risks that the jumpers face, and if the problem was egregious I'd get off the load and find another DZ - and tell the rest of the DZ why I was leaving. Specifics: 10. If your rig is 'legal' (i.e. signed off and sealed) and you are aware of its condition (even if there is a minor problem with it) then you get to decide if you want to take that risk or not - it's your life. 12/13. If a rigger is doing work he is not qualified for, I would make sure the person using him understood that. Once they do it is there decision to make. 14. If I was in a tree like that, I'd try to get to a branch or the trunk, cut away, and climb down. If the tree was unclimbable or I couldn't reach the branch I would hang out until someone found me. 15. The way I land I would drop the other toggle and grab the rear riser, but then I don't toggle turn hard enough to need toggles to recover before impact. And get ready to PLF blah blah. 18. Well, if he's a rigger, then it's a non issue. If he's just some guy I didn't know, and the forgery was awful, I'd tell him to think about what could happen to the pilot, and then tell the pilot if he was obstinate. If I knew him well enough to know how he cared for his gear, and his forgery would pass, I would lecture him a bit but not tell the pilot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #16 March 13, 2003 in each of the 18 points you brought up i would rely on my training. i was fortunate enough to have some of the best. i like to think that our instructors and coaches are integral enough to do the right thing all of the time. i have witnessed major violations at one dz in particular, i haven't been there since no matter how big a "country club" it is. i will not fly, or sky dive under any but the most compliant of circumstances. i make it my business to research a dz before i jump there. most dzo's try to do the right thing, until it's $$$ over lives clouding their vision. but being informed makes a huge difference in the safety of our sport. this is an excellent post as it brought more than one thing to my attention i haven't been watching for. thanks!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #17 March 13, 2003 1. The pilot arrives, jumps out of his car goes directly to the airplane, and without a pre-flight, starts it up and tells everyone to get in? QuoteNot go...Perris crash comes to mind. 2. You know that the pilot bail-out rig being used in the aircraft is out of date? QuoteI don't care...It's his life, and his ticket 3. Your friend's reserve is out of date QuoteI loan him my data card, or one of my rigs 4. One evening you witness the DZO forging a 100-hour inspection in the jump-ship's logbook? QuoteAsk...WTF!?!?!?! And depending on the situation decide if I will jump there. 5. The pilot tells you the DZO has disconnected the tachometer QuoteBigger issue than the other.....I would have a problem with this one. I have pencil packed a reserve, but this is showing intent to not do MX on the plane for as long as possible. 6. You become aware that the pilot's medical has expired and they are still flying jumpers? QuoteAsk WTF?!?!?! But unless it was TAKEN from him...I'd jump. The battery in the aircraft is bad Quotenot jump OK I am tired of this...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickfri59 0 #18 March 14, 2003 Quote The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? I've never seen a leaking battery, but from what I have seen, I thought the only way to spin-up the Otter was with a jump cart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 March 14, 2003 Quote . . . I thought the only way to spin-up the Otter was with a jump cart. Even I know that there are more jumpable aircraft out there than -just- Twin Otters. My guess is that -most- jump aircraft have on-board batteries. Certainly C-182s do.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #20 March 14, 2003 Quote >7. The battery in the aircraft is bad (leaking) so the DZO removes it >and "jump-starts" the aircraft for each load? >I'd still go. once the engine is on, it doesn't use the battery any more. Unfortunately, engines sometimes fail. Without a battery you then lose radios, transponder, flaps (usually) electrical instruments and sometimes trim. It's a pretty unreasonable risk to take. and i totally agree with you, but we are talking about a jump plane. it goes in circles in like a 5 mile radious (just guessing here, i have no clue, but not far anyway) and if the engine were to go out, ok, well, you loose radio, and transponder, ya, but you just circle back down onto the field. i mean how many dz's are really that busy. i'm not to sure what jump airplanes use electric for trim. the flaps, yes, but flaps are not required for landing, helpful yes, but you don't need them (well, if it's a short runway yes). and the likely hood that a dzo would do this is kinda slim, right. a lot of these questions have a slim chance of ever happening. but they could. and remember, just because i do things one way doesn't mean you have to. anyone who answers here, it's just there opinion, and everyone has a right to state there opinion (well, maybe not a complete right on here, but kinda ) later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spidermonky 0 #21 March 14, 2003 Quote 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt? Is this something I should look out for? I've never really thought of it as being a problem because I see it all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #22 March 14, 2003 QuoteIs this something I should look out for? Imagine you're sitting in the front of the plane on takeoff and it comes to an abrupt stop -- like maybe somebody decided it would be a good time to cross the runway and the pilot slammed on the brakes. Or worse, the plane for some reason crashes just after takeoff (it's been known to happen). Based on what you know about inertia, what do you think that 10 pounds of unsecured camera helmet is going to do?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #23 March 14, 2003 geez thats alot of shit! I would definitely move dz's. Im guess this is a hypothetical situation! but i f I saw THAT MUCH crap goin on all in one day I would gfeel compelled to talk to the DZO and tell him/her if they dont get thier shit together I will make sure someone else does! I dont wanna see more of our family die for lack of respect for our fellow jumpers!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #24 March 14, 2003 Quote 17. During take-off you notice the cameraman in the back of the airplane is not wearing his camera helmet and it isn't secured with a seat belt This happened to me at elsinore were I got in the plane , was sitting along the back and a girl told me to either put my helmut on or fasten it... hell.. she was polite and nice about and it was no big deal .. i said even said thanks... Things are only a big deal if you make them that!! Just correct your mistakes thank the person that reminded you and jump on!!jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #25 March 14, 2003 1. I don't get in the plane, period. 2. Pilot's choice. Remind the pilot and owner of it, and go jump. 3. Personal choice. How out of date? 2 days or 2 years? It makes a difference to me. 4. Let my opinion be known then vote with my feet. 5. Same as #4, walk. 6. Same as #4. 7. Same as #1. 8. Theory, Tell them what I think-You fuckin crazy? reality, I've done it. 9. Keep my mouth shut. The pilot told me to get out of his plane. For all i know this could be an emergency situation. Pilot is in command, so i'm leaving. 10. Return it to rigger, and have him remove the AAD (How did that get in there anyway?). 11. Remind pilot that it's his certificate on the line. 12. Warn the DZO and glider pilot, ask to see the reserve card, and warn the rigger whos name and symbol were forged, if present. Pull handle? 13. Warn rigger, probably pull handle too. 14. Wait for help. 15. Drop both toggle and go straight to rear risers, hopefully in time to save my life. (Note, do not toggle turn to final, use risers) 16. Tell them to buckle in. That's usually all it takes. 17. Kinda late now, but hopefully it's secured at least to his chest strap. 18. How out of date, and did he call his rigger? This ultimately lies on the riggers shoulders, since his seal is on the rig.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
