quade 4 #101 February 19, 2003 Quote But what would we say about Neil Armstrong if he messed up the landing approach, crashed the Lunar Lander, and disabled it? As I'm certain you're aware, he came damn close to doing just that. He damn near ran out of fuel.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,103 #102 February 19, 2003 Quote>There is NO skill requirement on the night jump for the "D". I would argue that successfully completing a night jump requires some skill, as does any extraordinary jump. USPA does not define "successful completion" except, implicitly, that you live to log the jump. Does it take any skill to exit unstable, tumble out of control, deploy at the wrong altitude, get lost, crash land off the DZ and injure yourself? But you can still log it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #103 February 19, 2003 >Does it take any skill to exit unstable, tumble out of control, deploy > at the wrong altitude, get lost, crash land off the DZ and injure > yourself? You're going in circles, John. I'll say "but training is required for a night jump" and you'll say "but they could ignore it" and I'll say "but they could ignore every bit of training they ever got" and you'll say "if they ignore it why should we require it" and we'll be back at the beginning, and that's not really that useful. See you later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,103 #104 February 19, 2003 Quote>Does it take any skill to exit unstable, tumble out of control, deploy > at the wrong altitude, get lost, crash land off the DZ and injure > yourself? You're going in circles, John. I'll say "but training is required for a night jump" and you'll say "but they could ignore it" and I'll say "but they could ignore every bit of training they ever got" and you'll say "if they ignore it why should we require it" and we'll be back at the beginning, and that's not really that useful. See you later. Disagree. Can you tell me another license requirement at any level where once training has been received, there is no evaluation whatever of the trainee's performance in that area? If you do water training with a B candidate, and they have to be rescued from drowning, do you sign them off?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #105 February 20, 2003 Quote Disagree. Can you tell me another license requirement at any level where once training has been received, there is no evaluation whatever of the trainee's performance in that area? If you do water training with a B candidate, and they have to be rescued from drowning, do you sign them off? You're absolutely right. I'll begin lobbying for an amendment to the D license requirements (see below) ... e. made two night jumps (one solo and one in a group) with a freefall of at least 20 seconds (1) with verification of prior night jump training from a USPA Instructor (2) with the advice of an S&TA, in accordance with USPA BSRs (3) and performing a stand-up landing within 20 meters of a predetermined target. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #106 February 20, 2003 Quote(3) and performing a stand-up landing within 20 meters of a predetermined target. That would injure a lot of skydivers. It's far safer to have them not all trying to land in the exact same spot -- especially at night.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #107 February 20, 2003 do you realize your speaking to a man that can literally "fly circles around you?"--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #108 February 20, 2003 Quotedo you realize your speaking to a man that can literally "fly circles around you?" 1) which post of my many are you replying to? 2) are you talking about you? IF so....christ.... did you REALLY just try to turn this into a pissing contest?? Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #109 February 20, 2003 Quote pissing contest your not like one of those "urine freaks" are you? YICH! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #110 February 20, 2003 Quote Quote pissing contest your not like one of those "urine freaks" are you? YICH! LOL Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeatherB 0 #111 February 21, 2003 Sweet jesus. Interesting thread. I'm tempted to start another one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #112 February 21, 2003 I also would like to know who you are talking to? As soon as you think your a big dog.....a bigger dog bites you. Its why I don't talk shit anymore. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #113 February 21, 2003 from experience, it really hurts when you land off the lit up landing area in a odd field. oh and did i mention there was a train behind me too haha. i like the lights Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #114 February 21, 2003 Quote It's far safer to have them not all trying to land in the exact same spot -- especially at night. Well then don't make it the same spot for everyone. QuoteThat would injure a lot of skydivers. acutally i agree with this.... apparently my sarcas didn't come through in that last post... it was merely possibly solution to kallen's issue of there being no performance standards by which to judge night jumps. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #115 February 21, 2003 QuoteI also would like to know who you are talking to? you Ron...why? J/K--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #116 February 22, 2003 Quote Quote I also would like to know who you are talking to? you Ron...why? J/K heh.. i HOPE you were kidding.. between ron's zillion jumps and how deserving he is of tunnelwhore.com, i think he'd be the one circling both of us put together on our bellies, at least *smirk* Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #117 February 22, 2003 Quote heh.. i HOPE you were kidding oh yeah? oh what? don't make me come over there! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #118 February 24, 2003 Quotebetween ron's zillion jumps and how deserving he is of tunnelwhore.com I don't have a zillion jumps (I don't even know how many damn zeros that would be?) And I am not on the running for Tunnelwhore.... I will not be able to reply tomorrow from 7-9...I'll be coaching in the tunnel. (That last comment really didn't help me did it?) Quotei think he'd be the one circling both of us put together on our bellies, at least *smirk* Yeah, as soon as I think I have a clue to skydiving...I go grab a 100 jump freeflyer, and have him make me feel stupid. Oh well...It's not my bag. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
