How's the ISP (Integrated Student Program) Working.

[skyeyeskydiving 0]

So, now that some of the more southerly dz's and a few lucky northern ones
have had a couple of months to work with the ISP (Integrated Student
Program), how's it working out for you?

All positive/negative comments regarding the program from dz ops or
jumpstaff and those seeking licensing through the program welcome. I'm sure
I'm not the only person interested in hearing about and learning from how
it's working out so far!

I'd like to thank you in advance for your input.

THANKS.

BO
SS

Martin

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

We run 100% ISP-based AFF here at Raeford and it works just fine. 99% of the real students (not tandem "rides") we get here choose AFF after they figure out that in the end, the cost comes up nearly identical between SL, IAD, AFF, or tandem/hybrid/AFP/whatever. The bottom line at this dropzone is that you are a student until you have that stamp on your USPA ISP A-license proficiency card. Now, the 82nd club runs a primarilly SL operation 40 feet outside my front door, but they use the same "real" USPA cards as us.

Keeping students under your wing, under the same roof, up until they have that license means that they are not left hanging or "wondering" at all. It also means that I need to have the "right kind" of instructors on staff; those with real teaching experience and a broad base of skydiving knowledge. This is not a problem around here because over 70% of our staff are senior special ops guys who teach for a living. I don't have a single instructor on my staff with under 1000 jumps either. With maybe two exceptions, everyone of us are all AFF/tandem/SL rated. Many of us are current and former RW competitors also.

Anyway, ISP works fine for us because we have the talent and capability to run the whole operation in-house. No need to setup any SDU-type operation in order to do post-AFF coach work. Also of note is the fact that we are a very "tight" dropzone. I am not going to say one word to a fellow "freelance" coach or instructor who wants to take over and finish training his buddy during the post-AFF/SL phase. We get a lot of this with the GK's and other military teams who train their own support staff and VIPs.

My only problem comes when I get people from other dropzones who either transfer here or stop by while on vacation, etc. Those who present logbooks stating they are "cleared for solo" (yet have no A-license), but have not completed even the basic AFF maneuvers like barrel rolls and flips. Some even show up having more than four skydives, yet have no A-card or USPA membership, nor were they ever informed of the requirement. Oh well, more work for me, but I don't care. I have not and will not let one of these people leave here without squaring away their paperwork and getting them "back on track." Once implimented, it only took a while to get our then-current students on track.

Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF/SL/TM/BM-I, S&TA
Raeford Parachute Center

[CrazyIvan 0]

Question for you, clear this for me.

I'm currently a Level 4 student and say that I stop by your facilities, what exactly is going to happen? if I want to finish my training with you, what's the procedure?

Just a question for INFORMATIONAL purposes.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

If you are saying you have passed the "old" level 3 and are cleared for level 4, then I am instead going to train you and take you up on a Cat C #2, which is in effect an "old" level 3, but with only one JM. If you have already completed an "old" level 4, then I am going to train you up and take you on a Cat D #2. Bottom line here is that I will take what you have done, make sure it's annotated properly on your A-card, then place you where you fit in the ISP. In some cases you actually get over, but in other cases you might feel like you are taking a step back. In cases where a student has completed something in the higher category, but has for some reason not performed one of the more rudimentary tasks, I will simply plan a skydive at the higher level, but plug in the TLO that was missed. I have yet to have a problem in that area. The worst case was a guy that showed up and wanted to make a "solo" dive who had been "signed off" off AFF by his DZ. He had, unfortunately for him, not completed the bare minimum TLO's for completion of any USPA AFF course (he had done neither barrel rolls nor flips), so I told him that before I could let him solo at our dropzone, he was going to have to meet minimum AFF-based ISP TLO's. After reading his DZ's sylabus, I saw that these things were going to be covered in their "post AFF SDU program." Unfortunately for him, most dropzones at least have you perform basic AFF TLO's before signing you off; his did not. Anyway, I did the dude a tremendous favor by putting together a "modified" AFF jump which had him doing those barrel rolls and flips, then accomplishing what he had originally hoped to complete. He had also not jumped in nearly two months, so I should have charged him for a full refresher. What did I nail this guy for? A measley $70 coach jump, equipment included. I made a whopping five dollars for about an hour and a half of my time. Could I have worn him out? Certainly, but that would not have been fair to him in my mind. He had no idea that he had not met the basic AFF requirements. This person had also not once been introduced to spotting.

Chuck

[skr 1]

>how's it working out for you?

We've been doing a version of it for two years
at Calhan in Colorado.

The AFF phase, levels A-E, didn't change much,
but I re arranged the coaching phase in two ways.

Right after the AFF phase I put most of the instructional
emphasis on canopy flying, exit separation, packing
and generally becoming a parachutist, and give them
a freefall recess where they can just enjoy the freefall
for a few jumps.

Second I gathered all the spotting and tracking and
clear & pull stuff into a 3 jump sequence that we do
out of the Cessna.

I use the short form of the proficiency card and don't
worry about the exact sequence suggested in the
F-G-H SIM version.

Maybe in a military situation you could follow that
but civilian students show up in such a variety of
currency, ability, and state of mind that it works better
to take them where they really are, keep in mind the
final skill levels we're trying to get them to, and design
jumps that move them in that direction.

The ingredients that go into these jumps are pretty
standard and what you'd expect, but the exact combination
and what gets emphasized depends on the student.

When the students finish the A-E AFF phase they are
cleared for solo freefalls, which means they are OK
to be in freefall by themselves, but it doesn't mean
they are cleared to be wandering around making
unsupervised jumps.

When they get to the coach phase I hand them a folder
with some writeups that tell them what to expect on their
way to the A license, which takes another 10-20 jumps.

I put that stuff up at
http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html#learning

There is always some push to come up with a rigid
sequence and a fixed number of jumps so you can
quote prices and try to look cheaper than the dropzone
down the road, but it just doesn't work that way,
and the best you can do is tell them that it typically
takes 10-15 and sometimes 20 jumps to learn all the
skills for the A license.


As for how it's working ...

For the students it's much better, they get to a much
safer level of skill before they are on their own.

For the coaches it's less clear and I still don't know
what to do about this part.

All this instruction they are getting is a *huge*
amount of work and I don't know how to get the coaches
paid for it.

You often hear "slot + 10" but you only actually make
a few jumps with them to do the freefall requirements.

All the rest, the canopy flying, the packing and so on
is done on the ground.


So overall I would say it is right to go in this direction
regardless of details that we may disagree with and
regardless of the awkward way it was introduced,
but it's still not a well worked out and accepted part
of skydiving culture.

So, I hope you plunge in and give it a try, the more
people try to do it, the sooner it will get worked out.

And the extra instruction after AFF really is the
right thing to do.


One final note is retention rate. Skydiving is pretty
intimidating and I think this coaching keeps some
number of people who would have dropped out
after AFF.

Skr

[skr 1]

Martin,

One final note is to feel free to use any of the ideas
or actual writeups that I put up. That's why I put them
up there.

I think the "Wings Level" article is pretty helpful in
teaching them about flying canopies, and that the
parachuting aspect is what they need most at this
early stage.

There is plenty of time later for fancy freefall.

Skr

[JYorkster 0]

I think the ISP is exactly what was needed to formalize much of the training that was already being done on a more informal basis. Giving a student the 4-page card gives them a clear direction and plan for what it will take to become a licensed skydiver. It also ensures nothing gets missed by the staff. I agree with one of the other responses that the specific order listed in the ISP does not always have to be followed exactly as written as long as all of the skills are demonstrated appropriately. Students are not all the same, and it may be necessary to 'customize' the training program for that particular student. Sometimes plane availability or weather may prevent an item from being conducted, but you can use the time to continue down the list.

Overall, I think it is a huge advancement over the previous program. It both keeps the student motivated and allows other instructors to have a much clearer understanding of what the student has already accomplished.

The major drawback is simply the fact that it is a change. There are many instructors that just don't want to learn anything new. I think some of the reluctance also comes from the added responsibility involved once you actually sign them off for each item. That means we actually have to TEACH them something!

Rock

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Since Skratch mentioned his more-in-depth canopy advancement, I must add that the ISP does not only cover freefall maneuvers. It gives clear guidance as to what a person does under canopy as well. Following that guideline will give a student WAY more than most programs were offering previous to ISP. It must also be noted that I am a professional, sponsored canopy pilot and just might have some idea as to how to teach canopy control. My 22 years in the sport helps a little too. That experience makes it very easy for me to properly teach the techniques recommended in the ISP progression and beyond.

I don't think "military" has anything to do with our program. I don't think that currency is any more an issue at a "civilian" DZ than it is here, where monkeys ("monkies" is incorrect in my vernacular) are deployed on a regular basis.

Chuck