Reserve Drills confusion

[Joystick 0]

Unfortunately, for one reason or another I am not able to jump as often as I would like and sometimes have long periods between jumps.

Until yesterday the last time I had jumped was five months before and that was after a break of several weeks. Back then I had to do a reserve drills check which I was quite happy to do. During the check I pulled the reserve handle and kept hold of it whereupon the CCI said that I should let go of it so that I would have my hands free. Fair enough.

That was five months ago. Yesterday I went to the DZ again and suggested to the CCI that I should do another reserve drills check.

I went through the check wearing a dummy rig and upon pulling the reserve handle let go of it and let it fall to the floor whereupon the CCI said "you should hold onto the handle to make so that you can see that you have pulled it".

You see my problem. One time I am being told to let go of the reserve handle and the next time I am being told (by the same CCI!!) to hang on to it.

D'Oh!!!

[phoenixlpr 0]

As far as I remember you should use both of your hand for the cuaway pillow and the reserve handle too. So you would loose the cutaway pillow. Anyway you dont have to hold the reserve handle, just put your fist in.

[rgoper 0]

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you should hold onto the handle to make so that you can see that you have pulled it

i know he's your instructor, but i'm baffled at this statement. in the event you cut-away, and pull the d-ring to full extension and cleared the ripcord from the reserve closing loop your going to know if the ripcord had been cleared or not by the snatch force of your reserve deploying. there has been some debate here as of late as to whether or not to chunk your handles in the event of a cut-away and consequent reserve deployment. i'll offer this, in my very limited experience, if your under 300 jumps and haven't had a reserve ride, if you must, chunk them away. but if your experienced and have handled mals and reserve rides before hang onto them. i keep mine, but that don't mean it's right.

stay safe, have fun.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[winsor 236]

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Yesterday I went to the DZ again and suggested to the CCI that I should do another reserve drills check.

I went through the check wearing a dummy rig and upon pulling the reserve handle let go of it and let it fall to the floor whereupon the CCI said "you should hold onto the handle to make so that you can see that you have pulled it".

You see my problem. One time I am being told to let go of the reserve handle and the next time I am being told (by the same CCI!!) to hang on to it.

D'Oh!!!

I'm not an instructor, so my comments reflect only my opinion.

One fundamental concept regarding safety systems is that they should be as simple as possible. Another is that you should change as little as possible in the lifesaving sequence over time. Thus, if possible, the best scenario is to learn a set of safety procedures on day one that will work just fine a thousand jumps from now.

I am kind of a chicken, so I don't like going back into freefall unless I have my thumb hooked through silver. The idea of cutting away and then trying to find where the ripcord went when the harness shifted bothers me. My procedure is one hand per handle and I stuff them in my jumpsuit before clearing the brakes on my reserve.

To get to whether you should hang on to your ripcord to see if you'd pulled it, this concept puzzles me. The fact that you're still in freefall is usually a pretty good clue that you're not done with your emergency procedures, and I've been known to pitch handles when I had more immediate concerns than hanging on to them. Keep pulling handles until you're under a good canopy, and hang on the handles if you are afforded that luxury, but focus 100% on staying alive regardless.

If you're worried about losing the handle, don't sweat it - they'll make you a new one.

Anyhow, the most basic cutaway procedure I was taught (when switching to 3-rings from shot and a half Capewells) was two hands per handle, keep an eye on the reserve ripcord while pulling the cutaway, and fling each handle once it is pulled completely.

For your first cutaway, I suggest throwing the handles away as a matter of course. Thereafter, keeping the handles is optional, but you should be ready to pitch them IMMEDIATELY if they interfere in the slightest with your emergency procedures (sometimes there's more to do after pulling handles...).

Oh, and whatever your procedure - practice it a lot. Having it be second nature really helps in a pinch.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Fast 0]

As a newbie when I was on student gear the thing that they taught me was to hold onto the last handle that I pulled, be it main ripcord, or reserve ripcord.

On BOC now, i don't hold the boc (obv.) but I would still try to hang onto the reserve, unless i had further complications, then it would get dropped.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[rgoper 0]

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Anyway you dont have to hold the reserve handle

i agree with this much.

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just put your fist in

bad idea, don't do this. if anything, after your safely cut-away from your main and deployed your reserve and everything is cool, ie: your reserve is SSS (square, stable and steerable) and canopy traffic is o.k. stow the reserve ripcord in your jumpsuit, and if you still have your cut-away handle and cords, stow them in your harness ring, or inside your jumpsuit as well. keep both of your hands free to move at will. bear in mind you've just lost canopy traffic awareness because you've been dealing with problems of your own and you have'nt been paying attention to much of anything else but saving your ass, so as soon as possible, make a visual sweep and see where everybody else is while under reserve. one more thing i forgot to mention, regardless of jump numbers or cut-away and reserve deployment system the rig your jumping is utilizing, if your rig is utilizing an RSL, do not depend on this device to save you, make like it's not even there. don't land your reserve with your d-ring in your harness, you'll more than likely get scolded.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[RippedCord 0]

Here's my experience with my AFF training at the Jim Wallace School in Perris, California this July 2003. We were taught to pull each away fully from the body using both hands and to let them go.

1. Look red, grab red with both hands.
2. Look silver, pull red extending your arms fully and letting go of the handle.
3. Grab silver, with both hands, pull silver, extending your arms fully and letting go of the handle.

[billvon 2,991]

"you should hold onto the handle to make so that you can see that you have pulled it".

Hmm. I can hold onto my cutaway handle without pulling it. In fact, I teach my students to throw the handle away; if they see it flying away they KNOW it's been pulled.

[sundevil777 102]

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I teach my students to throw the handle away; if they see it flying away they KNOW it's been pulled.

The handle may appear to 'fly away' but instead just be flailing out of sight. In my opinion, the downside of possibly throwing before a complete pull is important to consider. Pulling is much more important than throwing, and I would not want a student to get ahead of themselves/be in a hurry to throw.

I also don't like the idea of my cutaway getting caught up in the deploying reserve.

As the posts in this thread show, many have different opinions on two hands per handle and to throw or not.

Just because your instructor was sure of himself on the proper procedure does not mean it should be treated as gospel.

I go with one hand per handle and hold on to them.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,991]

>The handle may appear to 'fly away' but instead just be flailing out of sight.

Quite true, but if they clear the cables and throw it away the chances that it will not be pulled far enough is miniscule.

>I also don't like the idea of my cutaway getting caught up in the deploying reserve.

Hmm. I have never heard of this being a problem. Have you?

>I go with one hand per handle and hold on to them.

This works for most experienced jumpers. The caveats are:

1. It may not work for people with short arms and low handles; verify that a cutaway on a loose harness (i.e. a total) results in two clean releases

2. Do NOT train yourself to grab-grab-pull-pull; if you do so, and you have a hard pull on the cutaway handle, you will likely do what you have trained to do and open your reserve into your (unreleased) main. Make sure you train grab-grab-pull-check-pull.

[Squeak 17]

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>The handle may appear to 'fly away' but instead just be flailing out of sight.

Quite true, but if they clear the cables and throw it away the chances that it will not be pulled far enough is miniscule.

>I go with one hand per handle and hold on to them.

This works for most experienced jumpers. The caveats are:

1. It may not work for people with short arms and low handles; verify that a cutaway on a loose harness (i.e. a total) results in two clean releases

2. Do NOT train yourself to grab-grab-pull-pull; if you do so, and you have a hard pull on the cutaway handle, you will likely do what you have trained to do and open your reserve into your (unreleased) main. Make sure you train grab-grab-pull-check-pull.

From the rigs I'v seen the excess cutaway cable is only a couple of inches long, therefore if you "Peel Punch" your pillow with your hands at full extension there is virtually no chance of have the cables still in place. Is there?

We are taught to look grab "peel punch" then pull silver, one hand on each handle and peel punch 1st then pull

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Tonto 1]

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I go with one hand per handle and hold on to them.

Ditto. 17 chops, some with several handles. (Tandem)

I saw a mal caused by the throw away practice handle on an IAD dispatch a decade back. The ribbon went through the slider grommet. Student chopped and lived. I'll keep my handles thanks, and I like that I have both before I start.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nightjumps 1]

The ONLY thing that really matters here is that you pull the handles in the right order effectively and efficiently.

You can practice keeping the handles or throwing them away all you want. The bottom line is that when you employ your emergency procedures, you're either going to come down with your handles or not, no matter which way you practice.

The most important thing is that you come down safely under your reserve. If you keep the handles - great. If you pitch them away - you can go look for them and if you don't find them, you can think I had a safe reserve ride as you make your way back to call the manufacturer for new handles.

[councilman24 37]

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I also don't like the idea of my cutaway getting caught up in the deploying reserve.

In the "old" days we taught throwing away the reserve handle just to avoid this. Of course ripcords were longer and had two pins. The time I had a reserve total, after I realized it wasn't leaving I looked at the reserve in my hand. I HAD pulled it but the end of the cable and with the last pin was still in the housing. I pulled it out, looked at to make sure both pins were still on it, and threw it away to make SURE I pulled it.

I won't get into the two hands or one on each debate. I explain both and my preference for newbies and experienced jumpers and let them decide. Then reinforce the decision with further training and practice.

Terry

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billvon 2,991]

>therefore if you "Peel Punch" your pillow with your hands at full
> extension there is virtually no chance of have the cables still in
> place. Is there?

It depends on the rig. Some rigs have trimmed cutaway cables such that one is longer; this allows the RSL side riser to release last. Some rigs don't fit well, and when the cutaway handle is pulled the harness moves a few inches out and down, especially during a no-tension mal (like a PC in tow or bag lock.) Some people have short arms. Combine these factors and you could well have a problem.

I've seen this in reality twice, when people were standing on the ground opening their reserves right before a repack. A short woman did this once - pulled both handles for practice - and I noticed that one cutaway cable did not clear the white loop on the riser. The rigger was of the opinion that it would have released under load, but I am not sure it would have released in a low-drag mal.

>We are taught to look grab "peel punch" then pull silver, one hand
>on each handle and peel punch 1st then pull

That works fine as long as you make sure the first peel punch really cuts you away. This is very obvious on, say, a lineover, perhaps not so obvious on a bag lock.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Quote

Yesterday I went to the DZ again and suggested to the CCI that I should do another reserve drills check.

I went through the check wearing a dummy rig and upon pulling the reserve handle let go of it and let it fall to the floor whereupon the CCI said "you should hold onto the handle to make so that you can see that you have pulled it".

You see my problem. One time I am being told to let go of the reserve handle and the next time I am being told (by the same CCI!!) to hang on to it.

D'Oh!!!

I'm not an instructor, so my comments reflect only my opinion.

One fundamental concept regarding safety systems is that they should be as simple as possible. Another is that you should change as little as possible in the lifesaving sequence over time. Thus, if possible, the best scenario is to learn a set of safety procedures on day one that will work just fine a thousand jumps from now.

I am kind of a chicken, so I don't like going back into freefall unless I have my thumb hooked through silver. The idea of cutting away and then trying to find where the ripcord went when the harness shifted bothers me. My procedure is one hand per handle and I stuff them in my jumpsuit before clearing the brakes on my reserve.

To get to whether you should hang on to your ripcord to see if you'd pulled it, this concept puzzles me. The fact that you're still in freefall is usually a pretty good clue that you're not done with your emergency procedures, and I've been known to pitch handles when I had more immediate concerns than hanging on to them. Keep pulling handles until you're under a good canopy, and hang on the handles if you are afforded that luxury, but focus 100% on staying alive regardless.

If you're worried about losing the handle, don't sweat it - they'll make you a new one.

Anyhow, the most basic cutaway procedure I was taught (when switching to 3-rings from shot and a half Capewells) was two hands per handle, keep an eye on the reserve ripcord while pulling the cutaway, and fling each handle once it is pulled completely.

For your first cutaway, I suggest throwing the handles away as a matter of course. Thereafter, keeping the handles is optional, but you should be ready to pitch them IMMEDIATELY if they interfere in the slightest with your emergency procedures (sometimes there's more to do after pulling handles...).

Oh, and whatever your procedure - practice it a lot. Having it be second nature really helps in a pinch.


Blue skies,

Winsor

If all that does not confuse him nothing will.

If you are going to cutaway, make your decision up high, don't fettle fuck around.
Grab you cutaway with both hands, look at your reserve handle and pull the cutaway to arms length. Grab the reserve handle with both hands and pull to arms length, go into a hard arch. Both handles only have to move 5 to 7 inches. Throw the damn things away. Like someone said earlier, they will make you new ones. Don't give up until your goggles fill with blood.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals