mdowling 0 #1 February 3, 2003 I'm looking for some helpful information on how to conduct flag jump demos. If anyone has a resource you can point me towards, that would be great. Otherwise, I'm looking for some general advice and recommendations on flag size, use of weights, canopy selection, drag concerns, flag material choice and anything else you can think of. Thanks for the assistance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 February 3, 2003 You should probably contact a local Pro Rated jumper and get some instruction from that individual. There are a couple of different ways of doing a flag jump, but without live, and personal instruction, I don't think that any of them are safe for someone to just go out and try. It's definately NOT just another jump.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 February 3, 2003 QuoteIt's definately NOT just another jump. That is SO true, but in more ways then you probably think! Let me tell you about my flag jump (a practice jump for a demo). I had a banner/flag made specifically for a business for a jump, weighted, connected with a cut-away, yada, yada, the normal stuff. That is not what was the problem. I had the flag folded for an easy deployment and stuffed under my chest strap for the plane ride and climb out. I was wearing the big-boy rig from the DZ (Student Vector with a Navigator 300), which I had logged some jump on and knew I could fly and land very accurately. Well, this rig is wider then my rig and other rigs I normally jump, this along with missing my normal safety check before climbout caused a problem. I was sitting in "student' in our 182, turned, put my feet out and began to get out on the step to do a stable exit (at 3k ft). When I got on the step, I felt a tug at my rig, turned around and saw Todd (our S&TA at SD Aggieland) tugging on my rig, yelling at me. I looked over and then noticed my PC lodged under the flap handle! Todd slapped the pilot's hand away from it, grabbed it and after a few really hard tugs, got it loose and IAD'ed me for a safe jump. I left, on my first IAD jump(although I did a SL student progression), deployed the banner when under my canopy and flew to the target no problem. Now, think about what *could* have happened if Todd hadn't have seen the PC lodged under the flap handle. 1)The parachute could deploy into the horizontal stabilzer, crashing the aircraft. 2)The parachute deploying could have ripped the flap control out of the aircraft. 3) use you imagination, its bad. The point is, it is NOT a normal jump and odd things can happen.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdowling 0 #4 February 3, 2003 Thanks Quade. I had planned to do that as well. I just thought it would be good to tap the collective knowledge here for other advice in advance. It's always good to read as much as possible before seeking instruction. I find it eases the learning curve substantially. AggieDave, thanks for sharing your experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #5 February 4, 2003 Quote I'm looking for some helpful information on how to conduct flag jump demos. If anyone has a resource you can point me towards, that would be great. Otherwise, I'm looking for some general advice and recommendations on flag size, use of weights, canopy selection, drag concerns, flag material choice and anything else you can think of. Thanks for the assistance. I'm a PRO rated jumper on The Liberty Parachute Team libertyteam.com Our biggest flag is a little over 2000 sqft. (39X59) and is jumped on a specially designed rig that is very much like a tandem system. some questions you need to address are how big of a flag do you actually need? What will it be used for? Mark Schlatter : mschlatter@msn.com has aloft near Dallas and makes a really nice 20X40 F111 flag and container system...that's an 800sqft flag and is pretty much the demo industry standard. Even then, that is a big flag if you've never jumped one before. I would recommend starting with something in the 15X20 foot range, often called a 'holiday' flag...put 10-20 jumps on it until you feel comfortable. Then consider moving to a larger on if you see the need. There are a variety of ways to carry a flag depending on the size and construction of it. You can have it in a front mounted 'belly wart' type container, stuffed into a sleeve that attaches to your jumpsuit leg, even packed into the canopy itself. A few things to remember about carrying a flag... -It will effect the performance of any canopy....the slower the canopy the better as far as flag presentation. the slower the parachute is going the less weight you will need to keep the flag 'flowing' straight. -You will need some type to cutaway system for the flag...just in case. as well as a 'break away system' in case you should snag something near the ground...say power lines. keep in mind...as a course of professionalism you don't want to release ANYTHING over a crowd EVER. Find a clear area to deploy the flag then fly to the crowd. The best way to weight a flag or banner is to create a strong pocket on the lower leading edge and put sand or #12 lead shot into that pocket...pad the pocket as much as is practical because if you are doing it right you have "Flag Catchers" to insure Old Glory doesn't hit the ground. ...a swinging barbell weight can kill someone! Demo jumping is NOT an ordinary skydive... flags and smoke and pyro...jumping into an area that's not a dropzone, can push the pucker factor into an area that you may not be prepared for. You sport rig in not designed to have a couple of D rings added to the front and an extra 40-50 pounds of gear hung there...if you do so, you may at some point find your self in freefall looking back up at all your pretty gear... not recommended! Us a climbing type harness under you rig to hang heavy junk from. I could go on and on...but again, what are you trying to achieve? I could better guide you if I know where it is you want to go. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibrobinm 0 #6 February 4, 2003 Another source for information is: DZO of Skydive Tulsa, Dale Settle. He regularly does flag demos and jumps two different sizes. Also does banner tows. You can contact him at: skydivetulsa.com or 918-266-3332. Next time you have to choose between two evils, choose the one you've never tried before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #7 February 4, 2003 The last post assumes the original poster wanted to jump BIG flags. Actually, what the majority of DoD and general demonstration teams use are "standard" size flags rigged either onto flag lines and packed into a pocket on the bottom skin of the parachute then pulled down; or flag bags which are worn like a butt-pack (fanny pack), then pulled out and hooked at the top to a rapide link on your riser (or weighted and suspended below you). Either way, there are problems associated with flags. One must be ESPECIALLY skilled at flag rigging if they are going to use a flag line (like the Golden Knights demo team, etc.). Likewise, when suspending a flag below you, deployed from a flag bag, you risk hanging the flag (and line, weights, etc) up on obstacles as you come in on final. You also risk ridicule should you allow a set of colors to touch the ground. As previously stated: get with a competent PRO rated demonstration jumper and have him (or her) mentor you. You ought to have someone on your DZ with a PRO card. If not, contact USPA and see about getting a copy of their entire list. Chuck Blue PRO USASOC Parachute Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #8 February 4, 2003 ...or a combination of all is good! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
