trigger 0 #1 August 25, 2003 Hi guys and gals,excuse my ignorance but i was just re-capping on what to do in a two out situation(biplane,downplane etc)when it occurred to me that my reserve is that larger,abiet only 20sq/ft than my main canopy. Not having experienced a two canopies out situation myself,i was wondering if this configuration would have an adverse effect on what to do as the majority of skydivers that i know jump a reserve which is smaller than there main..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #2 August 25, 2003 >my reserve is that larger,abiet only 20sq/ft than my main canopy. Not much of a big deal. There has been a big stink over making your canopies 'compatible' but even very dissimilar sized canopies can fly together without too much trouble, as Derek proved a while back. It's a lot more important, in my opinion, to get a main and reserve that will land you safely by themselves. >as the majority of skydivers that i know jump a reserve which is >smaller than there main. I think that used to be true, but largely isn't any more. A 120 main/143 reserve combo is pretty common nowadays for someone with 500-1000 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #3 August 25, 2003 Thankyou for the imput.I was fretting if the configuration would increase the risk of a main/reserve entanglement ..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poohbeer 0 #4 August 25, 2003 Wasn't it like steer with the chute that's in front of the latter? (if 'joined' with the larger side) Or steer with the biggest if they're 'joined' with the small side of the chutes? ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #5 August 25, 2003 Biplane steer with the leading canopy.Side by side the larger/more dominant canopy all with gentle non aggressive inputs.I stand to be corrected..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #6 August 25, 2003 Just my $.02, but... We teach to steer the front canopy of a bi-plane using the rear risers only (gentle, small inputs...and only when absolutely necessary) As for side-by-sides, we teach to steer with the outboard most rear riser on each side. That means, you'll steer with the right, rear riser of the right hand canopy and the left, rear riser of the left canopy. Again, using small, gentle inputs and only when necessary. This method seems a bit easier to grasp than figuring out which canopy is larger, dominant, faster, prettier...whatever...especially when teaching students. It's served us well over the years! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #7 August 25, 2003 I can vouch for steering with the rear risers of the front canopy in a biplane. I didn't feel comfortable releasing the toggles of the front canopy as recommended in the SIM. My fear was that the front canopy would want to fly faster than the rear canopy, causing them to seperate and perhaps develop into a side by side or downplane configuration. Anyone flown a biplane with the toggles? How did it work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #8 August 26, 2003 I was taught the same thing - steer using rear risers of "dominant" (front) canopy. It is interesting to note that the 2003 SIM, section 5.1, Two Canopies Out, paragraph 3 states: 3. Stable Biplane a. Unstow the brakes on the front canopy and recover gently to full flight. b. Leave brakes stowed on the rear canopy. c. Steer the front canopy only as necessary to maneuver for a safe landing. d. Use minimal control input as necessary for landing. e. Perform a PLF. No mention of steering with rear risers. The implication in my mind is that they suggest using toggles to steer the front canopy. That doesn't make sense to me - a rear riser turn would keep the front canopy most level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #9 August 26, 2003 Exactly my thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a97virago 0 #10 August 26, 2003 I have had a side by side, and it was while I was still on student status. I was taught to gently steer the 'dominate' canopy. But not really know the student gear all that well, I got confused. And ended up turning a side by side into a downplane when unstowing the toggles. I like the idea of using the outer most rear risers to steer. It seems to bge easier to remember when clear-headed decisions are a must. And by the way, it only took me a split second to remember that a downplane was bad and chopped it. They found the main, but we lost the freebad, that is until this past weekend (over a year later) Larry A-43434 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #11 August 26, 2003 Anyone flown a biplane with the toggles? How did it work? I have. At the time I had a 170 spectre and a 170 tempo reserve. Both 7-cells. Same size & same/ similar line lengths. I saddled at about 850' right above a trailer house with lawn crap all around it and had to steer it to a safe landing area. I unstowed the front toggles and ever so gently gave a little input, then went back to full glide on the front canopy... while I waited a couple sec's to see what would happen. The front would turn a few degrees then the rear would slowly catch up, bumping it's nose to the tail of the front canopy. Then I'd turn a little more. Then wait and watch. It felt way strange. Like driving through slippery mud or on slushy ice. It takes much time from input to result. You have to be VERY VERY gentle and patient. It took several small turns to get the hang of it, but I was able to not only avoid the trailer, but put it into the wind as well. This happened on Safety Day. This is one of those jumps to which my signature refers.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #12 August 26, 2003 QuoteI have had a side by side, and it was while I was still on student status. I was taught to gently steer the 'dominate' canopy. But not really know the student gear all that well, I got confused. And ended up turning a side by side into a downplane when unstowing the toggles. I like the idea of using the outer most rear risers to steer. It seems to bge easier to remember when clear-headed decisions are a must. That's why I would never want to land a bi-plane or a side by side...they can turn to a down plane in a heartbeat. Quote And by the way, it only took me a split second to remember that a downplane was bad and chopped it. A down plane is the only safe cutaway with 2 out... canopies and risers as far apart as possible. With enough altitude...I would force the issue.----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themitchyone 0 #13 August 27, 2003 As a newbie, please be patient with my question. In AFF1 I learned which risers to use for steering if two canopies are attached (side by side or front and back); I'm sure they told us this, but I'm not 100% clear. If you find yourself in this situation you can steer the landing pattern, but since there is no way to flare, you are forced to take a hard landing? Does having two canopies out slow you down more than one?"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #14 August 27, 2003 Read this: http://performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
