is underloading a canopy dangerous?

[bluefingers 0]

Just a question, mostly out of curiosity. I weigh 112 lb, so prob 132lb out the door, and am currently jumping a Hornet 210 (club gear). For the profile clickers, yeah I know 63 jumps and still on a big canopy! (I was on static line for a looooong time, under a skymaster 285).
I'm comfortable under the 210, but am not comfy in the harness, it's too big for me, and I have to really haul on the legstraps to get them tight enough.

I'm very conservative under canopy, despite some good natured ragging about "being a girl".
Anyway, my current wingloading is around 0.6. Which is fine to me, but I got a comment that underloading a canopy can be just as dangerous as overloading, and that I should focus on downsizing.
(Our DZ is pretty strict regarding safety issues, downsizing etc. I've done 10 jumps under the 210, but am thinking of asking our CI if I can go down to the 190. My first few landing were, um, interesting as I didn't finish the flare, but I seem to be doing ok now, staying on my feet).

I'd appreciate thoughts on underloading ...

thanks all!

Kerry

[masher 1]

Just a story for you.

A little while ago, we had some army cadets come down for a para cse. One of the femal cadets was really tiny. When she was on finals (on her first jump), the left side of the canopy was collapsing and then reinflating. I can't remember how fast this was happening. This was on a 270. After this, she went out with a 195 and everything was fine.

I have no idea as to her wingloading. But shit can happen, I just don't know when it will start.

Edit: When I started, I was on the 270, and I loaded it at ~0.6-0.7. I did that for ~40 jumps.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[bluefingers 0]

ta, I've seen lots of tiny students come and go, including girls smaller than me, and they've all been fine under the SM 285. I never had a problem, just took me forever to get down.

Was just curious.

Kerry

[masher 1]

Yeah, I was often told that they thought about bringing in the airforce to shoot me down.

Like the time I got stuck in some thermals. 360 spiral, check alti, 360 spiral, check alti, 360 spiral, check alti... mmm I'm not going down... 2160 spiral, check alti, now I'm going down...

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[pds 0]

never mind the canopy. if the harness grossly misfits you, stop using it.

namaste, motherfucker.

[michaelflying 0]

hook it

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[Tonto 1]

WRT Safety, Gerry has his finger on the pulse. Your DZ has low lift capacity and time is on your side.

Under loading a canopy can be dangerous when jumping in windy or turbulent conditions. Gerry (and common sense) will not allow that.

As you know, I already consider you overweight, at 113 lbs. Since you'll need to lose some weight - you should stop using ANY harness that does not fit you. I believe many of the problems you experienced on progression could be attributed to ill fitting gear.

Admit it. You like skydiving. Downsize sensibly. 190, 170 then settle on a 150 for a bit. Make sure your landings are both good (stand-up) and accurate. (where you want to be) Do a search for Billvon's "Are you ready to downsize?" list.

PM me if you have more questions.

t

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[D22369 0]

I have seen underloaded canopies "breathe".......kinda looks like an accordion, havent ever seen one do it and induce line twists or give a bad landing, they just kept flying straight, but it sure is discomforting to watch!!!! one was on a falcon 300 and the other was a mighty max 340? both student canopies loaded around .5
They seem to keep doing their jobs despite being very lightly loaded....... I could be wrong but, the only danger I can think of would be for the wind to take you away..........

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[bluefingers 0]

Hey get it right! That's 112 pounds! sheesh!

You are right about safety, I wouldn't be jumping that harness if I hadn't had the full check out and go ahead. I trust our CI implicitly.

Kerry

[Tonto 1]

112lbs? I said 113? Sorry. You looked 113 in your Avitar. What did you weigh when that picture was taken?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[skymonkey 0]

I wouldn't woory about under loading. The only time it becomes a factor is in High, turbulent wind conditions. Under loaded canopies seem to be affected more in those conditions due to the fact that they are flying slower and aren't as pressurized, in addition to possibly having a negative ground speed (flying backwards)..

Miguel

[wmw999 2,439]

I used to weigh 115 and jump a Viking Superlight, which was, I believe, a 230 sq. ft. canopy. Most of the canopies were that big in those days. Yes, it was something like F111, but still big.

It never breathed, or collapsed, or scared me in any way unless it was windy -- then I had to be really good and collapse it really really quickly.

I had about 500 jumps at the time, and put maybe 100-150 jumps on it.

I completely agree about the harness -- get something that fits. And Tonto, you'd better be kidding about her being overweight or I'll just have to come over there and kick your ass

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bluefingers 0]

thanks all, this pretty much confirms things ... it's all good.

Bit of a misunderstanding on the harness. It's big, but not TOO big. It's just a mission to stow the legstraps cos I have them tightened all the way. That's what I meant by uncomfy. First time I jumped it, I was on the trolley for ages doing practice touches with an instructor shifting the rig around on my back to make sure I could get the handle every time. He was satisfied. So was I. I wouldn't be jumping it if I wasn't.

Kerry

[wmw999 2,439]

Quote

It's big, but not TOO big. It's just a mission to stow the legstraps cos I have them tightened all the way.

Ah. I was thinking something like the shoulders trying to come off and the chest strap sucked in to 2 inches, with the rig having 6 inches of play, flopping around on your back.

But just think of how much more comfortable you are in a Cessna

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bluefingers 0]

hey! I happen to be quite attached to our little cessna. There's something to be said for squashing in there - when you leave the door, you REALLY feel like you are bursting free!!!

Kerry

[Tonto 1]

Quote

And Tonto, you'd better be kidding about her being overweight or I'll just have to come over there and kick your ass

Only half kidding... What's the point of having an unrealistic body image that's attainable?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Remster 30]

Quote

or I'll just have to come over there and kick your ass

Yeah right Wendy.... I'm sure its the only reason you'd go to ZA... lol

Remster

[pilotdave 0]

I was in the same situation for a while. I'm also light and was jumping a 230 till i bought my own 150 (still lightly loaded). I was warned about inducing line twists with hard turns, but that's about it and it never happened. I landed backing up a bunch of times of course, which sucks. I ran into a problem that I never did figure out. Sometimes when I'd turn hard, it would start off normal but after a couple turns i'd end up on my back, facing up. The PC would sometimes have gone over the nose when that happened (which never caused any problems).

I won't advertise here but I have a container that might fit ya (and maybe a main too) for sale cheap if you're interested.

Dave

[FrogNog 1]

With canopies that are too slow to land you with forward speed when the wind is above X mph, aren't these also options:
1. don't jump
2. hook the canopy up backwards

I'm interested in hearing more about whether low loadings cause other dangerous behavior - such as collapsing.

I am still on the skymaster 290s in our student gear (still being a student and all) and I deal with the time it takes to get down by doing spiral turns or front riser dives (level, not turning).

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[ScratchTX 0]

One other thing to consider -- my own experience at about 107 lbs. exit weight under a student 220 was that I really didn't get to learn too much about canopy input and reaction. I moved down to a 160 around 20 or 30 jumps and while that is still a light wingloading, I was able to actually notice much more response to my inputs (front and rear risers, full toggle turns, flat turns, finding the sweet spot in the flare, etc.). Things were just in slow motion under the giant circus tent canopy, didn't learn as much. Now I am a hulking 110 lbs. and about to radically downsize to a 150. :>)

Scratch

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I happen to be quite attached to our little cessna. There's something to be said for squashing in there - when you leave the door, you REALLY feel like you are bursting free!!!

Sheeett.. if you think YOU feel free once you get out imagine how I feel.

About the only sorta comfy spot in a C-182 I can sit is behind the pilot. I really do not mind being last out on most loads. Our DZ only has Cessnas most of the year but you learn to adapt and overcome. I do love the feeling when I can get out the door though.

Amazon

[billvon 2,989]

>I'm interested in hearing more about whether low loadings cause
>other dangerous behavior - such as collapsing.

It's six of one, half a dozen of the other. A larger canopy is more susceptible to gust-induced stalls, and will weathervane into the wind more readily in gusty conditions. On the plus side, if your canopy _does_ collapse (and winds can collapse canopies whether they are lightly or heavily loaded) you are a lot better off under a larger canopy. It will reinflate at a lower speed. Even if it doesn't, you'll impact at a much lower speed than you would under a smaller canopy (assuming your canopy collapses at 20-30 feet.)

Also, some designs are more stable than others. The Nova was legendary for its instability. The Samurai seems a bit more stable in turbulence than other canopies.