USPA election candidate opinions

[sangiro 25]

This was an interesting thread until someone decided to wash his dirty laundry in public. Please keep that out of my forums. I've unlocked this thread hoping that it will continue where it left off before that trash session.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[Cloudseeder 0]

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I spoke to Larry Bagley this morning. He said that USPA did indeed edit the statement for spelling and punctuation, as they do all material published by them per their governance manual. There will not be any changes made to your statement. So if you want people to see your original, unproofed copy you probably should post it.
***
>And did you look at Our (not their) Governance Manual and confirm that there
is any section which compels them to edit a candidates statement in any way?

Nope, in fact I am sure there is not...

Mr. Von,
Your statements above might indicate to others that not only are you a USPA Rah-Rah type, but also that you may be a non-thinking , non-truth seeking ,"jack-ass".
Fair Winds,
"Treetop"

[Cloudseeder 0]

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This was an interesting thread until someone decided to wash his dirty laundry in public

I found it to become even more interesting after Alan called the group on their own hypocrisy.

The fact that Alans' statements of Truth have been censured here should prove that this forum has no *real* worth.

Live in your fantasy land. Gingerbread and Sunshine and never is heard a disparaging word.

I envy you your naivete.

Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings,
"Treetop"

[sangiro 25]

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The fact that Alans' statements of Truth have been censured here should prove that this forum has no *real* worth.

Opinions vary.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[Cloudseeder 0]

[
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The fact that Alans' statements of Truth have been censured here should prove that this forum has no *real* worth.

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Opinions vary.

That is true, Sangiro. Opinions do vary,however, facts don't change and the Truth is always the Truth.

"Treetop"

[RevJim 0]

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The fact that Alans' statements of Truth have been censured here should prove that this forum has no *real* worth.

Opinions vary.

Sangiro,
I have been following this thread for some time, and have seen both sides of this argument. Thank you for unlocking the thread.

I have no personal griefs with any of the posters here, but it seems at least one other person may.

From a previous post:

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You don't know me from Adam, but if you did, you wouldn't be spouting that BS, I promise you. That being said, keep a civil tongue around here

The actual post it came from was by Treetop, but is not something Treetop posted. I personally believe this statement goes above and beyond a personal attack to border on a threat. In fact, I personaly would consider it a threat, but it was not directed at me.
Here is the link to the actual post:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=282655#282655
Yes, a poster was threatened by a moderator. Is this what you envisioned when you created the site? Is it really all that different than news:rec.skydiving? In my eyes, the only difference is this was posted by a moderator. Your moderator. In your forum. What does this say about you?

I do enjoy coming here to your forums. Just please remember that we are all supposed to be equals, except for you. If I were to threaten a moderator, I would be kicked and/or banned very quickly. What happens when it is a moderator that does the threatening? Nothing so far.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[sangiro 25]

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...the Truth is always the Truth.

(don't you think this is a bit heavy for a skydiving forum, even for you? )

I'm always amazed by those who claim to know the "truth". No theory of truth can avoid a paradox if it contains its own concept of truth. Try to describe truth using a formal language and you will always be able to reason your way to a contradiction. To that end it's rather useless for me and you to sit here and try to convince each other of the truth. Under scrutiny it seems that most truths are simply a means to the political or ideological ends of the person who believes it. People see the world not as it is, but as they are.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[sangiro 25]

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Thank you for unlocking the thread.

Yes, I actually unlocked it for the candidates to continue their discussion, not for you to continue the one that got it locked in the first place. PMs would have been a good place to take up your issues with me.

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What does this say about you?

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[RevJim 0]

Sangiro,
I was going to post this before it was locked, since this particular aspect had not been brought forth.

It's an honest, valid question, and now it's in the PMs.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[Cloudseeder 0]

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...the Truth is always the Truth.

(don't you think this is a bit heavy for a skydiving forum, even for you? )

I believe this to be a Universal Truth.
It is not subject to spin or editing or censure.
Your Mumbo-Jumbo aside, Alan spoke the Truth in that you all at times appear to be hypocritical, and then his statements were censored.

Have fun in your lollipop and lemon drop "dream land".
Be thankful that you have little guys like Chuck to look out for you in your fantasy world.

Interesting that not one of the chumps who thought they had a go at me had any positive input as to how we should change USPA.

Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings,
Don L. "Treetop" Jardine

[PhreeZone 20]

>Interesting that not one of the chumps who thought they had a go at me had any positive input as to how we should change USPA.

What are YOUR plans on how to change the USPA? All I've heard is "give the USPA back to the fun jumpers" and Do away with the GM program".

How? How do you propose to make up the income that will be lost from the elimination of the GM program and the loss of jumpers that don't renew since they don't have to have membership to jump anymore? What is involved in giving it back to the fun jumpers? Elimination of compititions, more comps? Elmination of the student program? How and what will YOU do to change the USPA?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[sangiro 25]

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Be thankful that you have little guys like Chuck to look out for you in your fantasy world.

You're not threatening me are you?

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[buzzfink 5]

Don L. "Treetop" Jardine wrote:
>>>

Treetop?? complaining about others not having POSITIVE input????

Boy, now thats the pot calling the kettle black.

ROFL


Buzz

[bodypilot90 0]

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How do you propose to make up the income that will be lost from the elimination of the GM program and the loss of jumpers that don't renew

How about all the money saved by not moving. With a leaner uspa the space they have will be fine. Expand the aff program to create more instructors. Make 180/yearly repack cycle top piorty. Look into handing off the nationals to the FSL. Look into allowing no more than 30% of the BOD as DZO's.
How about canopy insurance?

[QuickDraw 0]

Hmmm...i'm beginning to see why this thread was locked now.
And this is a potential candidate ?
I think more time needs to be spent on constructive debate, rather than childish name calling,
i can hear that stuff every day at work.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[quade 4]

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Look into handing off the nationals to the FSL.

I actually liked some of your other ideas, but this one? Y'all gots ta be kiddin'. Right?

The USPA is the FAI governing body in the USA. To hand the Nationals over to the FSL just doesn't make sense.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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Truth is always the Truth.

No. Facts are the only things that don't change. For example 2 + 2 = 4. That's a fact.

The "truth" is a person's thoughts conforming and interpreting the known facts. For example at one point in time people thought the world was flat. Today some people believe NASA never landed on the Moon. These people believed (or continue to believe) they know what is true.

However, the facts speak for themselves.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bodypilot90 0]

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Y'all gots ta be kiddin'. Right?

only halfway, I need to do some research on how much the uspa sends on the nationals. If out-sourcing saves money why not. FSL has done more to help rw comp than any other group i know. Nothing wrong with looking at it. Just an idea nothing more.

I don't hate the uspa. Just think we need some fresh ideas and a even playing field. 'Cept for that Buzz guy J/K
Vote for the people who are for the funjumpers, Don, Winsor, Jan and Mike Mullins

[markbaur 0]

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Expand the aff program to create more instructors.

Can you give more details? Do you think there aren't enough rating courses, or is it that the standards are too high, or is the problem something else?

Mark

[bodypilot90 0]

well I like that standards as they are. However we need to make the cources more available to the membership. There is a lot of resistance from some in power to this. While I agree it would be easy just to leave things as they are, I find it very hard to believe there are not more "subcontractors" out there that can do as good of job as we currently have.

[markbaur 0]

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We need to make the courses more available to the membership... I find it very hard to believe there are not more "subcontractors" out there that can do as good of job as we currently have.

Your profile shows you're in Sebastian. There was a course scheduled for Sebastian at the end of October, but no local jumpers signed up. There will be courses in Deland in January, Z-Hills in February, and Lake Wales in April, and if you wanted to have a course at Sebastian, all you have to do is call one of the course directors. Which one will I see you at? There can be as many courses as there are candidates, so the problem is really how the candidates organize themselves to cover the course overhead. All the course directors I talk to would like to do more courses with more candidates.

The issue of how many course directors there should be is quite different. There are already more course directors than are needed to satisfy the current demand. The more there are, the harder it is to maintain standards or standardization, and the easier it is for one or another of them to develop a reputation for competing on price or on how easy it is to pass their course -- see the threads on Coach Courses to see what unstandard can be.

Mark

[bodypilot90 0]

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Which one will I see you at?

I'm not talking about florida, I'm sure everyone wuld like to come south. If they wanted to be helpful how about droping the fee for nonmember dropzones to hold the course. (It's a Im benefit not group member benefit)

[PhreeZone 20]

If you are thinking NSL instead of the FSL that might be different. Also on the move if the USPA can find a preexisting building further out of the city for less money I think that the move option still needs considered. Its going to be hard to thin down the USPA staff since they are almost under staffed as is.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[PhreeZone 20]

Actually... what I'd like to see is the politics getting droped in the AFF course. One of the guys I know recently took the course and failed despite the fact that he had been doing reall AFF's for years and finally just wanted the rating. He's went through the bad things in real life with students but since he did'nt play the games the course director wanted played he failed the course. How many students are going to make a break for the door as soon as you drop grips to take the exit grip? Stupid stuff like that needs to be eliminated. Also having a evaluator closer would help lower the cost to the canidates. An instructor per region would be a good start, one per state would be ideal, but that would delute the standerds too much.

Quick question... how much extra do the USPA members in Alaska and Hawaii have to pay just to get a course? There is a lot in flying an evaluator from FL to Hawaii for 10 days and paying the expences. Why can't there be some one in those remote states that can offer the course for no travel fee?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,990]

>Your statements above might indicate to others that not only are
> you a USPA Rah-Rah type, but also that you may be a
>non-thinking , non-truth seeking ,"jack-ass".

And your statements are a testament to the level of intelligent discussion you are capable of. As they are in a rather public place, it at least gives people a good view into the personalities and skills of those people running for the BOD.