freakydiver 0 #26 August 7, 2003 Isn't that illegal? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malev 0 #27 August 7, 2003 QuoteIsn't that illegal? I don't know about the US, but over here in the UK seatbelts are not mandatory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #28 August 7, 2003 dz policy is 1500 feet, below that, you ride down."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #29 August 7, 2003 1000' We open the door on hot days and it goes like this, "Seat belts! Everybody got em off? Door!" Tandems don't unfasten until they are ready to hook up. About 8000' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #30 August 7, 2003 Quote Isn't that illegal? In the U.S. you are -required- by FAR 91.107 to wear a seat belt for taxi, take-off and landing. Other countries have different rules. However, all one has to do is look at a couple of crashes and it becomes obvious that if there is a seat belt available that a person would be foolish to not wear it when it matters the most; taxi, take-off and landing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #31 August 7, 2003 QuoteWhat people actually wear seatbelts? Only the smart ones! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #32 August 7, 2003 Hey, I can say that I was DAMN happy that I had a seatbelt AND my helmet on when I was in a 182 crash a while back. Even though the pilot did a kick ass job, without a seatbelt being worn by everyone onboard, who knows how it would have turned out.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #33 August 7, 2003 QuoteHey, I can say that I was DAMN happy that I had a seatbelt AND my helmet on when I was in a 182 crash a while back. Even though the pilot did a kick ass job, without a seatbelt being worn by everyone onboard, who knows how it would have turned out. Dave, That makes you one of the smart ones. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #34 August 7, 2003 The thing to think about is that seat belts aren't really for you, but for the people upstream of you that you would kill in the event of a sudden stoppage (crash) and you become a projectile. A seatbelt over the lap or leg that you would slide out of in a crash won't do you or the people you will kill any good. Put in through your harness. A helmet will protect you in the event of a crash and wearing it or securing it before take off will prevent it from becoming a projectile in the event of a crash, killing your friends. A seat belt should be worn until a safe emergency exit altitude is reached. That altitude is dependent on several factors and can change from load to load. Now you are in an aircraft that is about to land, possibly crash, with no seat belt on and too low to jump. If you are sitting next to the door of a large airplane, then 1,000 feet is probably a good minimum altitude. It takes longer to exit a Cessna 182 loaded with jumpers sitting next to the door than it does to exit a Twin Otter sitting next to the door. If you are last out on a 20-way out of a Twin Otter and you take your seat belt off at 1,000 feet and there is a couple of people between you and the door that don't take it off until 1,500 feet, you are going to be in trouble if the aircraft starts to go down. By the time you get to the door, either waiting for the people between you and the door to unbuckle and exit or going over the top of them, it will probably be too low to exit. When the engine(s) quit, the pilot must nose the aircraft over to establish best glide speed, sacrificing altitude for airspeed to prevent the aircraft from stalling. What this means to you is that if the engine (or both in a twin) quit, the aircraft will start to descend immediately. If you take off your seat belt at 1,000 feet, right before the engine(s) quit, whatever time it takes you to get to the door and exit, the aircraft will be descending and you may get to the door as the aircraft is passing 500 feet and would have been better off belted in. The farther you are from the door, the higher you should take your seat belt off and you shouldn't take it off before anyone that is between you and the door. Seat belts ideally should be taken off in a ripple effect from the door forward, as each person reaches a safe minimum (or higher) emergency exit altitude. I get a chuckle out of asking someone that just took their seat belt off at 500 feet, to look down and ask if they will jump from this altitude. When they say "No.", I ask them why they took their seatbelt off if they aren't willing to jump, because if the engine(s) quit, that is exactly what they have set themselves up for. They usually reply "I never thought of it that way." Sitting next to or near an open door with a seat belt on is asking for trouble. In the event your main pilot chute gets out or your reserve PC fires (thanks to that curious tandem passenger sitting behind you), you are going to be ripped in half by the seatbelt. Even if it is hot, don't open the door until everyone near the door has their seatbelt removed. Of course don’t remove the seat belts until a minimum safe emergency exit altitude is reached. -Wear a seatbelt, through your harness. -Don't take off your seat belt until the aircraft is high enough that everyone between you and the door can get out and the aircraft will still be high enough for you to exit. -Don't open the door until everyone near it has removed their seat belt. -When removing your seat belt, 'clear it' so that it can't snag anything when you get up. -Never reconnect seat belts. -Always give your seat belt a tug to make sure the locking mechanism has engaged. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoetsch 0 #35 August 7, 2003 one more thing to add- know the terrain of your dz- just because your altimeter says you are at 1500' you may be climbing over rising terrain which would put you lower AGL than you think. I've seen quite a few airports with surrounded by hills that could add an extra couple hundred feet to your "safe exit" altitude as you read it on your altimeter."If you're not on the centerline -you're out of control" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #36 August 7, 2003 There you go, using that common sense and reason shit again. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilSteve 0 #37 August 7, 2003 I wear mine until I feel comfortable that I could clamber out of a spinning plane. If I'm in the back, it's a bit higher than if I am right next to the door. Always at least 1500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #38 August 8, 2003 QuoteI wear mine until I feel comfortable that I could clamber out of a spinning plane. If I'm in the back, it's a bit higher than if I am right next to the door. Always at least 1500. Trust me, you will never get out of a spinning A/C. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
webracer 0 #39 August 8, 2003 1000', when my dytter chimes in. That's when the helmet comes off too.Troy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #40 August 8, 2003 QuoteThe thing to think about is that seat belts aren't really for you, but for the people upstream of you that you would kill in the event of a sudden stoppage (crash) and you become a projectile. thats exactly how one of our pilots explained it. He said seatbelts in a C-182 is mostly so we don't bounce against the pilot or the controls, either of which could really screw up a crash landing. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #41 August 11, 2003 QuoteSitting next to or near an open door with a seat belt on is asking for trouble. In the event your main pilot chute gets out or your reserve PC fires (thanks to that curious tandem passenger sitting behind you), you are going to be ripped in half by the seatbelt. Even if it is hot, don't open the door until everyone near the door has their seatbelt removed. Of course don’t remove the seat belts until a minimum safe emergency exit altitude is reached. Always bugs me when people are whipping the door open at a grand before checking if everyone's seat belt is off. I don't think the person whos pc goes out the door will be ripped in half by the seat belt. I think they'll rip the seat belt out along with a large chunk of the fuselage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #42 August 11, 2003 I remember seeing a picture of a large chunk of the side of a C-182 ripped off because someone's PC went out the door. As long as nothing happens, people get complacent, when something happens, then the highly enforced rules come out. I bet the DZ with the Cessna that was opened like a Sardine can has very explicit door and seat belts rules to this day. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jarrv4 0 #43 August 13, 2003 QuoteI don't know about the US, but over here in the UK seatbelts are not mandatory. -- Malev Here in the US, according to the FAA, a seatbelt must be worn during taxi, takeoff, and landing. There is no FAA rule saying to what altitude you must have your seatbelt on. At MHSC in Longmont, CO, we have a rule of keeping seatbelts on until 1,000AGL, no exceptions! In addition to that, jumpers may not move from their positions in the aircraft until 2,000AGL. In all reality, after takeoff, it needs to be decided by a competent S+TA, DZO, or DZM. J. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #44 August 14, 2003 don't have seatbelts on the porter... I keep it till 1000 ft in the otter in empuria, cause my protrack reminds me I have to take helmet and belt off ---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
