Big whuffo/noob question

[The111 1]

I dunno why, but I have a feeling people aren't going to like this question. But it's something I've always wondered.

All fatal incidents are recorded, right? So are there any documented cases of someone with a malfunctioned main, executing his emergency procedures perfectly, deploying his reserve completely stable into clean air, and then having his reserve malfunction and going in? Not that I'm too worried about this happening (I'm much more worried about incidents due to my own mistakes), but I'm just curious if this has happened.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[fudd 0]

You can do everything right in this sport and still die That fact are probably never going to change.
The skydiving fatalities pages will probably be of interest for you.
That said, skydiving as all extreme sports is all about risk management. It can be done safe and it can be done unsafe.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[The111 1]

Thanks, I've seen the page and plan on reading it ALL when I have time... just wondering if anyone knew of a "perfect" situation (an actual example) like you mentioned that still resulted in fatality. Seems every incident I've read up on has a blameable culprit.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[ralu 0]

I heard about something like that... in 1940....
It was a girl in the national team with 1000+ jumps. The reserve ripcord was rusty and she couldn't pull.
But things have changed since that era.......

ralu

what would be a woman without her dreams....

[councilman24 37]

Reserves DO malfunction. But it's rare and usually due to rigger error or jumper error instead of inherent malfuntion rate of the rig. I had a 1400' reserve total malfunction after a cutaway. I pulled it at 1700' and it opened at 300'. Not PC hesitation. Several minor rigging errors on a 1975 rig lead up to it. This was when I had 80 jumps, wasn't a rigger, and didn't know any better about chosing a rigger. It's why I became one. A jumper blew up a round reserve I packed by opening it while tumbling. Partial inversion and failed lower lateral band resulted. He survived, badly injured, and it had nothing to do with the rigging. And he didn't blame me.

Neither of these fit your scenario. Take care of your gear, learn as much about it as you can, be picky about your rigger, and skydive aware. You and your rigger should treat your reserve system as your last chance to live.

Your concern is a small part of the risk we choose to take by participating in skydiving. The much greater risk, IMHO, is flying in the airplane, human error on our part and other jumpers, and driving to the airport.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Casch 0]

It can, and has happened. Nothing is perfect, and it's important to accept the fact that yes, it is quite possible you could have a total malfunction after doing everything you're supposed to do. There's nothing you can do to remove the possibility of the event. But what you can, and must do, is read, learn and practice emergency procedures for any event you can think of. DZ.com is the perfect place to do this. I only have 41 jumps, but the knowlege I've gained about gear, malfunctions and emergency procedures is awesome I feel prepared to handle just about any situation I could be dealt. But I also do my best to mitigate the dangers by multiple gear checks, making sure the rig I'm jumping has been maintained well and practicing my emergency procedures.

90% of the problems you COULD have can be easily prevented by proper packing (if you have any question at all, however minor you think it might be, ask anyway), doing a gear check before you don your gear, have someone else give you a gear check before you board the plane. Feel your handles occasionally on the way to altitude, especially after shifting around in the plane. And that means all your handles, make sure they're there and seated where they're supposed to be. If you do these things on every jump, you'll improve your odds greatly. But ALWAYS be prepared to handle a malfunction, because sooner or later it WILL happen. Damn I rambled on quite a bit there didn't I?...ok then. I'm done

[Ruffles 0]

Good question, one that I myself asked when I got into this sport. Go to www.skydivingfatalities.info and do a query search for double-malfunction (DMAL). You will see all that occurred in the last 8 years. Most of them are not the scenario you depicted when everything was done perfectly and the thing still didn't open.
There's stuff like someone tumbling away from a spinner and having the pilot/free bag wrap around their leg, etc. Double mals are ceratinly possible, but mains malfunction at like 1:333 and reserves at like (correct me if I'm wrong) 1:750 so statistically thats 333 X 750 = a one in 250,000 chance of a D-mal based on odds alone.
Practice those procedures brother and the odds are probably less than than that.


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[CloudOnMyTongue 0]

I'm no math pro or anything but say your that unlucky one in 750 malfunctioning packed reserve, well isn't that mal just going to sit in your container and wait for you to pack that one in 333 main that malfunctions.

Wouldn't that make your chances one in 750 of getting a double malfunction?

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Wouldn't that make your chances one in 750 of getting a double malfunction?

If it were, I'd golf.

[Ruffles 0]

I see your reasoning, but look at it like rolling the dice (which is pretty much what we do).
You have one die which has 333 sides to it and every time you roll it and its comes up #1, you get a malfunction.
Now, those odds are slim, but if you roll that die three times a week for 5 years, sooner of later, its going to come up #1 and you're eventually going to have a mal.
However, now you roll another die (pull the reserve)that has 750 sides on it. If that die comes up #1 you get a reserve mal. The odds of rolling the two separate dice above and having them both come up #1 on the same jump/roll is 250,000 to one. This of course excludes packing errors, deployment errors, etc and goes by chance alone.
I'm no math geek either but I took statistics and, being paranoid as I am, I think about this shit alot.
If you were only jumping your reserve chute on every jump with no main in your container, then your odds would be 1:750.
All right, I'm even starting to annoy myself. I'm out.

P.S.- Diverdriver can probably explain this better than I can. He's an airline pilot and he knows more about systems redundancy than I do.


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