wmw999 2,444 #26 July 17, 2003 I have 7 round reserve jumps, 4 of them terminal. Only one was even close to as hard as my hardest square opening (which was a serious slammer). That said, it's likely to wake you up, and I agree with everything else he said about round reserves. I have one in my backup rig, a 20' round that packs up nice and small. I'll admit, though, I weigh more now than I did when I bought it, but I do know how to PLF. And a low panic turn under a round will pound you, but it's very unlikely to kill. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #27 July 17, 2003 QuoteI have 7 round reserve jumps Any of these in strong winds? Being in a round (not Para C type) in wind is no fun. Quotebut I do know how to PLF. And a low panic turn under a round will pound you, but it's very unlikely to kill. Yes, but what if you are about to drift into a build up area, freeway, power lines, lake, river ??? Steering is limited. Why did we start to jump squares as main? Same reasons that most converted to square reserves when they came available. Yes, there are cases a round would be good to have but I think in 90% of situation you are better off under a square...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #28 July 17, 2003 Ok lets talk about reserve malfunctions... Cypress fires @ 750' while you are flailing around on your back semi-conscious after a freefall collision! Bad body position(not your rigger) is the cause of your line over(or steering line entanglement). How fast can you make your ram air inflated wing landable? A ram air inflated wing is just that....a wing! Broken wings don't fly for shit. Parachutes are round! Squares(Tringles,ovals,etc) make good mains. ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #29 July 17, 2003 Quote Yes, but what if you are about to drift into a build up area, freeway, power lines, lake, river ??? Steering is limited. My reserve turns fast enough for me. But you will not get drive in high winds(read landing backwards). I have landed a lot of seven cells that way too! A 100lb girl under a large seven cell will not get much drive on a windy day anyway! This is where accuracy comes in. "Good accuracy is a survival skill." Quote Why did we start to jump squares as main? Cause there cool! Stand up landings and all! Quote Same reasons that most converted to square reserves when they came available. Not to sure a lot of people made a choice based on safety. It may be a fad. ...mike Two square parachutes(and I use the term loosely) and an AAD(AED) don't sound safe to me, but it is the most common setup I've seen.----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #30 July 17, 2003 QuoteIs being under a canopy unconscious a good thing? reply]No! never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 1 #31 July 17, 2003 QuoteI'm not perfect, but if for some reason I ever "forget to pull" and have a Cypres fire, I'm quitting the sport.I'm surprised you'd say that. After knowing a few people that were given the chance to never "forget" again, one in particular gives so much back to the sport I'd truly be bummed if he'd quit. But you're entitled to your actions so I'd back you either way.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #32 July 17, 2003 "I don't think anyone could forget to pull " Hmm, there's a page somewhere that says people do indeed 'forget to pull', they either brain lock, or can't find the handles, or experience hard pulls, or some other equipment problem. Aha, here it is, interesting reading, even though the data only runs to june 2001. ...http://www.cypres-usa.com/saves02b.htm example........."28.March 1999 Elsinore, USA : A skydiver with 2000 jumps and 20 years in the sport was unable to pull the reserve handle after a cutaway. The CYPRES opened the reserve container." Come out of denial and admit it, you will go low sooner or later, if you haven't already. I have a Cypres in case I go too low, not because I think I will be knocked out. I also jump with at least one audible, normally two, and seldom jump without a hard helmet, maybe 5 times out of 1200. Of course there are instances where a Cypres can be a hinderance, eg exiting an aircraft at a relatively low altitude with a main that is known to snivvel, eg my spectre.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites parachutesj 0 #33 July 17, 2003 QuoteOf course there are instances where a Cypres can be a hinderance, eg exiting an aircraft at a relatively low altitude with a main that is known to snivvel, eg my spectre. If you exit that low, always go for the reserve! I'd say if you have to jump below 1500 go straight for the reserve. Steffen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiverRick 0 #34 July 17, 2003 Of course there are instances where a Cypres can be a hinderance, eg exiting an aircraft at a relatively low altitude with a main that is known to snivvel, eg my spectre. How low do you exit? never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #31 July 17, 2003 QuoteI'm not perfect, but if for some reason I ever "forget to pull" and have a Cypres fire, I'm quitting the sport.I'm surprised you'd say that. After knowing a few people that were given the chance to never "forget" again, one in particular gives so much back to the sport I'd truly be bummed if he'd quit. But you're entitled to your actions so I'd back you either way.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #32 July 17, 2003 "I don't think anyone could forget to pull " Hmm, there's a page somewhere that says people do indeed 'forget to pull', they either brain lock, or can't find the handles, or experience hard pulls, or some other equipment problem. Aha, here it is, interesting reading, even though the data only runs to june 2001. ...http://www.cypres-usa.com/saves02b.htm example........."28.March 1999 Elsinore, USA : A skydiver with 2000 jumps and 20 years in the sport was unable to pull the reserve handle after a cutaway. The CYPRES opened the reserve container." Come out of denial and admit it, you will go low sooner or later, if you haven't already. I have a Cypres in case I go too low, not because I think I will be knocked out. I also jump with at least one audible, normally two, and seldom jump without a hard helmet, maybe 5 times out of 1200. Of course there are instances where a Cypres can be a hinderance, eg exiting an aircraft at a relatively low altitude with a main that is known to snivvel, eg my spectre.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutesj 0 #33 July 17, 2003 QuoteOf course there are instances where a Cypres can be a hinderance, eg exiting an aircraft at a relatively low altitude with a main that is known to snivvel, eg my spectre. If you exit that low, always go for the reserve! I'd say if you have to jump below 1500 go straight for the reserve. Steffen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #34 July 17, 2003 Of course there are instances where a Cypres can be a hinderance, eg exiting an aircraft at a relatively low altitude with a main that is known to snivvel, eg my spectre. How low do you exit? never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #35 July 17, 2003 "If you exit that low, always go for the reserve!" I'm talking about hop n pops around 2000 ft, say a snivveling spectre on a bad day eats up 800 ft, if it mals, or I tumble / fumble I am in two out territory. For sure, A/C emergencies at or around 1500, its hello reserve, but not for 'regular' 2 grand HnPs.... I've gone to the main at an exit alt of 1400, but no AAD and I was young and ignorant..... edit>"How low do you exit?" Anything above 2000 is okay with me, but I have gotten out lower, in my youth.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #36 July 17, 2003 I'm not saying that everybody needs to take my point of view on the issue. Hey, people can do whatever they want to do. For me it would be a personal sign that I should be getting out.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #37 July 17, 2003 QuoteWhat about forgetting to pull? You're not perfect, are you? A really stupid thing to have happen. If you don't have the confidence that you will pull, you should quit now. Buying a CYPRES becasue you think you might "forget" to pull is a VERY pathetic reason to buy one. You should insted invest in another hobby if you think that way. Being dependent on the damn thing is stupid."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #38 July 17, 2003 QuoteI don't think anyone could forget to pull My 4way teammate burned in with a perfect reserve on his back. It happens. Start Rant (Not aimed at anyone): Still if you HAVE to have a CYPRES, you might want to rethink this sport. It will never be a "safe" sport. And buying a CYPRES just to cover up your lack of confidence with yourself is stupid. End Rant."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #39 July 17, 2003 [QUOTE]Have one installed. Turn it on and skydive like your life depends on your own judgement. [/QUOTE] I agree. I don't have a cypres installed, my life does depend on me pulling. But just for argument sake, I could see installing one as a backup whenever I find a bunch of hundred dollar bills laying around --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #40 July 17, 2003 [QUOTE]A really stupid thing to have happen. If you don't have the confidence that you will pull, you should quit now. Buying a CYPRES becasue you think you might "forget" to pull is a VERY pathetic reason to buy one. You should insted invest in another hobby if you think that way. Being dependent on the damn thing is stupid. [/QUOTE] You just followed up this post with a post how your 4 way teammate burned in with a perfectly good reserve on his back. Now let's try to work the logic through here... Would you rather your teammate err on the side of caution and say, "you know what, I am human, what if everything goes to hell, and somehow I forget to pull my reserve? I should buy that cypres", OR "I dont need a cypres, I'll ALWAYS pull my reserve, that can't POSSIBLY happen to me". Famous last words, huh Like I said in my post above, I dont rely on the "damn thing", I skydive without one, but I wouldn't mind someday having one as a back up device. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #41 July 17, 2003 I'm going to sell my cypress cause I never turn it on. And I don't want to be unconscious under canopy and take the chance of being paralyzedLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #42 July 17, 2003 Rather than cut your nose off to spite your face, why don't you look at scenarios where you could be knocked senseless, and try to avoid/mitigate those? Choose you jump buddies/style of jumping more carefully, and/or wear hard stuff on your head. I don't want to see people being paralysed, but I don't want to see them burning in either.....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #43 July 17, 2003 Ahhh, I see, you'd rather be dead than paralyzed. Personal choice. Quite difficult to make if you really think about it and I don't think anybody really can until it's too late to choose.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #44 July 17, 2003 QuoteI'm going to sell my cypress cause I never turn it on. And I don't want to be unconscious under canopy and take the chance of being paralyzed What about the extra time that you have to wake up and save your life? never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #45 July 17, 2003 Quote Like I said in my post above, I dont rely on the "damn thing", I skydive without one, but I wouldn't mind someday having one as a back up device And as long as you treat it like a back up device, then you are taking the correct attitude....However in recent years there has been a trend to RELY on them. If you buy one because you are afraid "you will forget to Pull"....You need to look at another hobby. After all, take away freeflying, RW big and small ways, boards, wingsuits...ect...Skydiving is about jumping from a plane and landing safe. If you doubt that you can do that without the aid of a cool black box....You are in the wrong sport. As for my teammate...well yes I wish he had a CYPRES so I could have kicked his ass for doing something that fucking stupid, insted of putting him in the ground. But it should be said that he would have been fine if he had pulled his reserve also. And when I think back to this accident I don't blame him for not having a CYPRES, I blame him for not pulling his reserve."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #46 July 17, 2003 QuoteI'm going to sell my cypress cause I never turn it on. And I don't want to be unconscious under canopy and take the chance of being paralyzed .. If you enter cypress firing altitude and are to stunned to pull.... you will die in 4 seconds.... if a cypress cuts your reserve loop,,,the result SHOULD be an open, wing, flying at half brakes........ BUT now you have time..... and you are not dead...If the opening shock can "bring you back to your senses", you may be able to land ok..You will have 45 to 60 seconds in which to "wake up. and Even . IF you stay,, "out of it",,, are you Assuming that the resultant landing will Paralyze You!!!!!!!..?????.. ..... MAYBE there is a chance of that,,,maybe,,, but maybe you will have a guardian angel who lets you set down in a wide open area,,,or maybe allows you landing to be quite survivable or maybe you skydive with people who are ALERT,,, and somebody chases you, or while under canopy,, gets down to you,,, maybe docks on you,, maybe steers you home safely... ..... I will give you the benefit of the doubt,,, that maybe you mean the paralyzation OCCURS<<<< at the collision..... ... which is possible,,,,,, but not real likely,,, (depends on who you skydive with, and on your own safety practuces as well.)..... but if Life is a Freefall.....Enjoy ! then you have to be AROUND,,, in order to enjoy it. and i bet you would be missed by many.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #47 July 17, 2003 Quotethat maybe you mean the paralyzation OCCURS<<<< at the collision..... ... which is possible,,,,,, but not real likely, Just happened in DeLand about amth ago. Chris"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #48 July 17, 2003 But what if I don't wake upLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #49 July 17, 2003 Hey Jimmy .. YOU KNOW ME.. always starting troubleLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #50 July 17, 2003 QuoteBut what if I don't wake up There's a lot of "what-ifs" in this sport. Life in general for that matter. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
