Gear check, gear check, gear check!

[matttrudeau 0]

Yesterday we had a student who was just off AFF doing a solo. She was wearing student gear and she did not have her "A" License yet. She boarded the plane as normal and around 9 thousand feet everyone was doing gear and pin checks again. One of the instructors on another AFF jump did a gear check and saw that her Cypres off. So she had to ride the plane down, pay for a jump ticket and the rental gear. But besides money, it was pretty embarassing. It was a definite reminder to all of us to constantly check each other's gear. Be proactive and ask for gear checks.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Jump ticket is fair, but gear rental???? Has she used it? Anyway is it the instructors responsibilty to check her gear if she does not have A? In Finland the graduation is getting C license. With A or B you are just a student and under instructors responsibility and supervion.

Safe landings.

[sunnydee123 0]

Hmmm...not sure what I think. Ticket up, yes but gear rental? Granted she should have turned it on since she was off student status but the instructor who did her ground gear check before boarding should have ASKED if she turned it on. I know they always did for me. Mistakes happen - better for her to learn now (early) and not let it happen again.

During my night jumps, after starting the day early, someone asked about the cypress time (how long they stay on). It made me think. I was all geared up and on a 5 minute call but I knew I was close to the cut off so I took off what I needed to in order to get a check and it had shut off. Never can be too safe! Help the newbies out....until the newbieness wears off....

Dreams become reality, one choice at a time...

[jerry81 10]

Reminds me of the time I was borrowing a friend's rig for the day. Before the exit on the first hop&pop, I thought to myself "Hmm, I wonder how you turn the cypres on?". Wasn't that big of a deal to me, since the rig I usually jump is without AAD anyway.

---

[falxori 0]

where i jump, all student rigs are checked both on the ground and on the way up, by a JM.

although its always the job of the one wearing it, i don't think she should have been charged for the gear rental.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[matttrudeau 0]

I don't agree with the Gear Rental charge either. I'll have to ask them their reason behind it. It's kind of sad the things that happen when money is involved. Does this sort of thing happen at other DZ's?

[Zenister 0]

a the risk of starting a flame war..

i was on a load and asked to do a 9k gear check and found a student (i think he had 20+ jumps but wasnt licensed yet) with his cypress off..

pointed it out to a TM who was also there (and was his JM on a few jumps during his progression apparently) and he asked the student a few questions about his dive etc..and said he was cool to go..so out he went..sometime after our ff group had already gone)

which made sense to me..if the TM/JM was confident of the students ability/altitude awareness why not? because the BSR says so??? the BSRs provide great guidelines, but slavishly following any rule without regard to the situation "on the ground" never seems the best course either...if you have people in positions of responsibility TMs. ST&A's, DZO's.. shouldnt their judgment really be the deciding factor?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Scrumpot 1]

Glad I read all the way down, because this is almost EXACTLY what I was gonna jump in & say! ...I can't believe all the people in here merely debating about the gear rental cost!

In actuality, the BSR's only state that non-A licensed jumpers are required to HAVE a cypres. I do not think that it says technically that they have to be turned ON! ...Okay, this may be a technicality (and I haven't actually looked it up either -I think it may even say STUDENTS -if you are off student status -old school maybe, but just not yet A-licnesed maybe it doesn't even apply there either) but my 1st thought was why did this jumper HAVE TO ride the plane down?

I'm with Zen on this one.
Pretty lame, but NOT because of the gear rental & jump ticket cost issue! -DOH.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[matttrudeau 0]

It must have been "DZ policy" for this jumper to ride down.

[Scrumpot 1]

Well, if it was their policy then for him to ride down, it should be their policy to refund him the gear rental fee (at least). ...Oops, am I now arguing THAT component too? ---DOH!

I'd still like to know. I wonder if what was meant by "HAD TO" ride down because that was his (or her) decision.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

Also, what kind of aircraft was this? ...The reason I am asking is because your original post states:

Quote

She boarded the plane as normal and around 9 thousand feet everyone was doing gear and pin checks again.

WTF is everyone all moving around in the aircraft at that altitude for? ...Is all you get only @10 grand to start with? Me would think you would end up with some pretty pissed off pilots if they're constantly having to fight with trim, then re-trim settings for the most difficult portion of their climb on your behalf (because you all want to get up & check each other & move around at THAT alt.) in the 1st place!

Hope you all also look to check your spots too. I'd be concerned pilot would be kicking you out early as I know I would if you were doing that to me!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[fundgh 0]

Once we got off rip cord rigs and were doing hand deploy, our rental gear did not even have AADs. I don't see the big deal in any of this unless it was the students decision to ride the plane down and the DZ decided to rip the person off.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[Zenister 0]

Quote

WTF is everyone all moving around in the aircraft at that altitude for?

IME 9-10k is where most jumpers do 'final' gear checks..particularly teams who then focus on the diveflow for the next thousand feet..most check themselves and or have the person behind them do it, so there is very little "moving around" required

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Scrumpot 1]

My point is that if you are going to 13.5 say, wait until you clear at least 11. ...You don't really need 3 full minutes to do gear checks now do you? Now if their A/C was only going to 10 in the 1st place, fine.
See where I'm headed here?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[dragon2 2]

Quote

My point is that if you are going to 13.5 say, wait until you clear at least 11. ...You don't really need 3 full minutes to do gear checks now do you? Now if their A/C was only going to 10 in the 1st place, fine.
See where I'm headed here?

We only go to 12k, which means everybody starts putting on gloves etc at about 9 or 10k. Moving and checking handles is usually a bit higher.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Zenister 0]

yes but i still dont agree..you dont check for 3 min.. you check then you relax and focus on the dive, go over the exit, visualize the points etc.. then check your handles again right before jumprun, but you shouldnt usually have been moving around so much they could have been dislodged anyway...

most commonly observed jump rituals.

9-10k gear (pins, rings, straps, handles)check

11-12 googles, helmets, exit count clarification.. etc

12-13 hand shakes, fingers, farts, jokes etc

13.5 door!

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Scrumpot 1]

Maybe you only go to 12k BECAUSE you move, ever think of that?

I'm only kidding, and I see in there that you say your "moving" portion only takes place later. Seriously though, if you want more altitude you need to better coordinate when everyone is "getting up & moving around". Just automatically getting up & moving around (too early) will LOSE you some altitude at some DZ's if you ever do any travelling.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

but you shouldnt usually have been moving around so much they could have been dislodged anyway...

BINGO! ...You win the prize, Zen. Another (and the "real" one I was hinting at) good point to also keep in mind.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[robskydiv 0]

No flaming here Zenister. I concur.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

Why would they let her rent gear without making sure that she knew how to turn on the cypress? Where I rent my gear, they are required to watch the rig renters set their cypresses - no matter how knowledgeable the jumper is.

I think that the school/gear shop is also at fault for overlooking her. This poor girl was doing a solo and had just completed her AFF courses. They should have helped her before she boarded the plane.

[mikkey 0]

Good Point. If you rent gear and pay for it, it is the DZ's responsibility to ensure the Cypres is on and functioning. Not only should they not charge rent, they should also refund the jump ticket.
Contrary to some I think the student should land if the Cypres was off. If you have a rule that says that students need Cypres - you better stick to it. 1) You either have a rule or not 2) If that studentyhad gone in on that jump (and Cypres was off) the lawyers would have had a field day, i.e. the DZ and the instructor would have been liable.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[mccordia 74]

I think it's easy to point the finger at the student, but I think the DZ is at fault here too.
Although the student should know better, the DZ owner (or at least the JM) should also make sure EVERYONE has had a pincheck BEFORE boarding the plane.

Stuff like misrouted cheststraps, ADD's that are not turned on and other stuff should be caught BEFORE boarding...not during a check on the ride up.

Still, you see people go up without a decent gear-check so often....I don't get it...it only takes 30 seconds, and can prevent soo much trouble from hapening.

At my home DZ the designated JM always makes sure everyone has had a pincheck before boarding (he doesn't have to give everyone a pincheck, but he does have to ask everyone if he has had one)

I realy liked Borki (Russia, near Moscow) where it was the DZ owner himself who did gearchecks on EVERY person that went to the plane.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Tonto 1]

Firstly, at our DZ, JM is responsible for gear check until the jumper is off student status. Also, we have a system in place that all cypri are turned on when removed from the kit room.

JM's fault.

No charge for gear hire in this case at our DZ. Same with student refusal.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

My dz does not charge for the jump ticket if you ride the plane down.

The theory is this: if you get to altitude and something is wrong - with clouds, equipment, your head, anything - one might be tempted to jump simply because he or she will have to pay for it anyway. I think we'd all agree that jumping while knowing that there's a problem is extremely dangerous, so by not charging for the jump ticket, the dzo is not encouraging that particular dangerous decision.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[JYorkster 0]

"just off AFF" and "did not have an A license" means she is STILL a student. An instructor should have gear checked her before boarding the plane. I don't think the DZ should charge her for lack of their own staff supervising their student.

Rock