base698 15 #1 June 26, 2003 Was thinking about USPA requiring an incident report for an injury somewhere above a broken leg but less than a fatal. Is there some reason they don't do this? I've seen several serious injuries (many many months in hospital) that people could probably have learned from at different DZs the past year. I think it'd also be an eye opener to those people who only think in terms of fatal skydiving accidents and justify safety based on that alone. Granted it may be in the body of skydiving's best interest not to have this reported... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #2 June 26, 2003 >Was thinking about USPA requiring an incident report for an injury >somewhere above a broken leg but less than a fatal. USPA encourages accident reporting; provides forms and everything. No one ever does it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 15 #3 June 26, 2003 ^^^ Aren't fatality reports required though? I know they have forms for injuries but why not go ahead and require them (assuming fatalities are required)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 June 26, 2003 Fatality Reports are required from USPA Group Member Drop Zones, but some DZs are even ignoring that for fear of the reports falling into the wrong hands and being used agaisnt the DZ in litigation, or so I'm told. I've written elsewhere about this but I think it was a long-term mistake for the USPA to oppose the FAA NPRM requiring reporting of incidents and accidents. While it -may- prevent future lawsuits, it does not help prevent future injuries. I'll take the lawsuits over injuries any day.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #5 June 26, 2003 USPA screwed that up in several ways. 1) A ND gave a lawyer un-sanitized incident reports that were then used against the DZ in a lawsuit. Now USPA is paying to defend the ND. 2) USPA opposed the NPRM that would have made incident reportring mandatory by the FAR's. 3) They are un-able to enforce their own rules at DZ's. If they punish a DZ that isn't following their rules by taking away their Group Membership, USPA loses the GM dues, and possibly more money in individual membership dues if the DZ decides to no longer require membership of it's jumpers. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 June 26, 2003 Quote1) A ND gave a lawyer un-sanitized incident reports that were then used against the DZ in a lawsuit. Now USPA is paying to defend the ND. Oh, believe me, I'm well aware of almost everything that took place and the motivations behind the people involved. Without knowing all the facts involved it's very difficult to have the right perspective on this. Some people have jumped to conclusions about what took place as far as the incident report goes, but I'll tell you, sit down with the person that was accused of doing the wrong thing in handing over the report and let him tell you his side of it someday. As far as I'm concerned, this individual is one of the good guys and is looking out for the JUMPERS in this sport. He may do some things to piss off some people, but as a skydiver he's really looking out for YOUR interests and not just the interests of the USPA Group Members or PIA Members -- YOUR interests as skydivers. He's also one of the most fair people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. Quote2) USPA opposed the NPRM that would have made incident reportring mandatory by the FAR's. Actually, incident and accident reporting by the NTSB 830 definitions which are quite a bit different than the definitions used by the USPA. To be specific. I understand why this was opposed by the USPA Group Members, but what I don't understand is why the opinion of the organization was given the way it was when it might not actually reflect the best interests of the General Membership -- clearly the heart and soul as well as the majority of the financial backing of the organization. ***** As for item number 3 -- I can't even begin to speak to that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #7 June 26, 2003 QuoteOh, believe me, I'm well aware of almost everything that took place and the motivations behind the people involved. Without knowing all the facts involved it's very difficult to have the right perspective on this. Some people have jumped to conclusions about what took place as far as the incident report goes, but I'll tell you, sit down with the person that was accused of doing the wrong thing in handing over the report and let him tell you his side of it someday. As far as I'm concerned, this individual is one of the good guys and is looking out for the JUMPERS in this sport. He may do some things to piss off some people, but as a skydiver he's really looking out for YOUR interests and not just the interests of the USPA Group Members or PIA Members -- YOUR interests as skydivers. He's also one of the most fair people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. They are 2 sides to everything and a endorsement like that from you carries a lot of weight. Even if his actions have benefited skydiving and skydivers, it doesn't change the appearance and the result from the event. DZO's are reluctant to supply USPA with accident reports. Someday you'll have to give me the other side of the story. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 June 26, 2003 QuoteSomeday you'll have to give me the other side of the story. I'd prefer you get it straight from the horses mouth. It's not really my story to tell. As for the actual result of the entire hoo-ha -- that's still for history to decide.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #9 June 26, 2003 QuoteFatality Reports are required from USPA Group Member Drop Zones, but some DZs are even ignoring that for fear of the reports falling into the wrong hands and being used agaisnt the DZ in litigation, or so I'm told. I've written elsewhere about this but I think it was a long-term mistake for the USPA to oppose the FAA NPRM requiring reporting of incidents and accidents. While it -may- prevent future lawsuits, it does not help prevent future injuries. I'll take the lawsuits over injuries any day. No-one can avoid a coroner's report on a fatal accident. The coroner (or equivalent) has subpoena power and the report is a public document. It's just harder to get hold of.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 June 26, 2003 QuoteNo-one can avoid a coroner's report on a fatal accident. The coroner (or equivalent) has subpoena power and the report is a public document. It's just harder to get hold of. However, there is currently no National database that collects coroner's reports on skydiving. Further, you have to know about it in order to ask the coroner for it. It's certainly not the coroner's job to notify the USPA.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #11 June 26, 2003 QuoteQuoteNo-one can avoid a coroner's report on a fatal accident. The coroner (or equivalent) has subpoena power and the report is a public document. It's just harder to get hold of. However, there is currently no National database that collects coroner's reports on skydiving. Further, you have to know about it in order to ask the coroner for it. It's certainly not the coroner's job to notify the USPA. I think that was implied in my statement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #12 June 27, 2003 I filled out my own report online at USPA after my incident. Yeah, its a shame that very few incidents do get reported and sometimes fatalities don't either... I think the DZ's are afraid of any scrutiny... ANY, and also a little lazy. Your average DZO and staff usually have their hands full with day to day operations and gathering the factual data and filling out a report would probably happen later in the day after the beer light comes on and we can't have that can we? And I believe this failure by most to report incidents is a great disservice to us all, I read all the incident reports and learn from others mistakes and I wanted others to learn from mine. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #13 June 27, 2003 Folks, if you have a incident ,if you damage property or injure yourself take it upon yourself to file a report with USPA online. They don't name names or places in the published reports so your ego won't get any more bruises and I surely hope you take responsibility for your actions... Its YOUR responsibility to make sure its reported IMO. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
