PC over the leading edge, actions?

[w4p2 0]

What is your opinion on a situation where 280 f2
Manta loaded to .9 has a PC over the leading edge,
while being piloted by student.

Canopy flies ok and and turns and flares well at high altitude, but what are the dangers and potential problems when flying such canopy in to the landing.

No chop situation but....?

How common this situation is or should be with spring assisted PC launch?

Cheers: JL

[phoenixlpr 0]

Nevertheles it looks strange, but its normal. Thats not a malfunction. It can happen.

Safe landings.

[grega 0]

it happens 2 maybe 3 times a year at our school. it's not really to worry about. canopy reacts normaly and is controlable, and lands normaly. well at least it's not a problem with wingloadings 0.8 or less. i can't say about wingloadings for more than 0.8...

the problem would be if you'd have a longer bridle and pilot chute would wrap itself around A and B lines and tighten them...

"George just lucky i guess!"

[darkwing 5]

Avoid hard turns, which will speed things up and increase the drag on the PC....

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[AndyMan 7]

If your canopy is stable, steerable, and flarable, I'd land it.

If it's not stable, steerable, or flarable, I'd chop it.

I would make sure to practice a few deep flares and stalls just to make sure that nothing odd happens.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Genn 0]

The same thing happened to me during AFF. It didn't effect my canopies performance so I landed it.

However, I do know others that chopped.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

This actually appeared in one of the photographs used for harness training at my dz. I was trained to do a controlability check, and if it passed it was fine, but not to do anything radical that might upset it.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[alain 0]

I know someone who was badly injured in such a configuration but at higher WL (above 1.6, I could not say exactly). the canopy kinda collapsed during the flare.
I've never experienced it but my guess is that under a high speed canopy, this is something to consider as a malfunction.
now, i'm not a big canopy guru, and i'll let them talk...

[billvon 2,991]

We had this happen perhaps 20 times while I was working at Brown. Only once did it cause a problem, and that was due to turbulence collapsing the canopy. When it reinflated the PC had "bow-tied" the canopy.

[w4p2 0]

20 times during a career at given DZ, fine. But what do you say about it happening in one out of three or four jumps.

An instructor that I know, told that this is what happened to her, and it is not a big deal. So be it, but ocuring on a student rig, the frequency got me rather concerned.

In addition to above, it appears the line twists on the mentioned student rigs are rather a rule than an exception even in stable / good SL exits.

Are the two above mentioned situations indications of a canopy getting out of shape, extensive wear on the rig, or is it just everyday blues with student gear.

Cheers: JL

[rainman 0]

I had the exact same thing happen to me at about 20 jumps. It was a long spot and I was *very* thorough in my controllability check because the springloaded pilot caused a slight turn, so I had to land out, no problems.

I never got a satisfactory explanation as to what might cause this, other than 'it happens.'

Pure speculation here, but maybe the greater forward (and downward) speed on non-student equipment prevents this rare phenomenon?

Blue skies,

Rainman

[phoenixlpr 0]

Jeje, because with those gears we arent using spring loaded PC nowadays :).

Safe landings.

[lippy 918]

At the DZ I learned at they use ripcord deployed mains for FF and S/L.

As far as line twists on S/L go, I don't think I've done a jump without them, including jumps as a dummy student long after I was off the dope rope.

As well, in the 90 some jumps I put on Mantas before I could afford my own rig, I've seen a spring-loaded PC over the nose many times. Never caused me a problem, other than being a little strange to look at.

I got nuthin

[skytash 0]

I think the important thing is whether it is controllable. This happened to me on my 14th jump and when I did a practive flare, the PC inflated and bow-tied my canopy. I decided to get off it.

The thing I am confused about is that I was never told about the possibility that it could happen. If it happens relatively frequently do any instructors out there tell their students about it? I was surprised by it and went back to the principle 'If it is not big, square and controllable, get off it'. I decided it was not controllable and cut-away.

If it has a tendency to happen shouldn't it be included in the same category as twists, ie not necessarily a malfunction but something to be aware of and know what to do about?

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[Genn 0]

Tash. I totally agree.
I think it should be taught. When I was a student and it happened to me, I looked up and it looked weird, but my '4 Ss' were in tact. I used my own judgment but I would have preferred knowing about it before I experienced it.

[eWave 0]

Been there, done that (twice) with no problemos. Canopy was Navigator 220 with spring pilot chute.

[WayneRATS 0]

260 pd with spring pilot chutre here.. it's a bit of a bugger coz i don't like to chuck it about but it's happened twice.. it kind of puts a dent into the jump i really enjoy the canopy ride.. is there any particular sequence of events that leads to this happening?

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Can You Ere Me Now?

[Clownburner 0]

It is taught, at least now. My AFF FJC covered it, and the synopsis was "Don't panic, if it's there, square, and steerable you're fine; if it's not, cut it away and pull silver."

Simple enough, but I could see how that might be disturbing if you'd never seen it before.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[skeptik 0]

Same situation was in the may'2003 at one of russian DZ's. Canopy – Falcon (I'm not sure about size, but it was more than 200 sq.ft.) with spring pilot chute. After opening canopy has PC over the leading edge. It was stable. Pilot checked stearability of canopy and decide not cut away. While pilot pulling steering lines down for landing, PC collapsed main canopy to a 'butterfly' and falling down. Result – compression fracture of backbone.

Therefore – in this situation is important to check canopy for flaring, and if you see the tendency for collapse main, then or chop it, or land it without flaring if your wingloading permit it.

Sorry for my english...

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Íàñ ó÷èëè íå æèòü, íàñ ó÷èëè óìèðàòü ñòîÿ.

[w4p2 0]

Very valuable information. Tx.

What is the likelihood of the situation developing
into bow tie or similar at low altitudes / under the hard deck. That is the thing that makes me wonder.

Despite of my diminutive experience I have tried to think the situation over and over and only solution that I have come up with is reserve deployment without chop. (Jumping round reserve).

Scary crap. I would actually prefer to jump high and do my own throw outs, but unfortunately AFF is not available in my nick of neighborhood.

For me altitude equals safety. This brings me to an other question that I have been wondering about. The point of making the freefalls in s/l training from low altitudes.... I will open a new thread on it on this forum.

Once more, ty, your comments are highly appreciated.

Cheers: JL