Designated landing areas

[DBCOOPER 5]

I'm beginning to believe the only way to keep people from being "hooked out of the air" is by designating specific areas for these type landings.These areas should be as close as possible to the hanger/packing area for maximum exposure to spectators, as well as being close to the road for the EMS people, for the occasional misjudged landing or 200 jump wonder looking to impress the world with their new little canopy. They should be well marked, and well enforced. It isn't working with the current system.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[sundevil777 102]

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These areas should be as close as possible to the hanger/packing area for maximum exposure to spectators

This would limit the ability of swoopers to stop their planned turn as needed to save themselves.

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being close to the road for the EMS people

Smartass

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[quade 4]

This, of course, would do nothing to prevent swoopers from hitting each other.

The fact is that there is nothing that you can do other than educate people and hope they use some sense in realizing when it's time to abort their swoop in order to prevent a collision.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[riddler 0]

Mile-Hi in Longmont, CO has a main landing area (which I avoid), as well as a separate "high-performance" area (which I also avoid).

A few rules about the two areas. If you are doing 180 degree hook or more, do it in the high-performance area. But you must talk with experienced swoopers at the DZ before landing there. If you are doing less than a 180 degree hook, stay out of the high-performance area. And no crossing the high-performance area below 1,000 feet (same as the runway) for non-swoopers.

Personally, I don't hook or swoop and I stay out of both areas. I choose my target from 1,000 feet, and it is out of the main landing area. I've already found some cool shit landing out in the sticks

[AggieDave 6]

If people would use their heads, then this wouldn't really be a problem anyways.

The biggest problem I see are people who think they HAVE to hook EVERY jump. That in conjunction with how some folks fly their boats (s-turns on final, spiralling down to be the first one down and hosing everyone else's final, etc).

If both of these groups could realize what the other is doing, and fly accordingly, then it wouldn't really be a problem.

At a lot of the DZs I've been too, its understood that if you're not gonna swoop, stay away from the beer line and land with everyone else.


You know, when I was in Eloy over Christmas, landing order wasn't really discussed overtly on each load, but people would sit off in the desert waiting to get in their "slot." They would let the extreme swooperss land, then the intermediate swoopers, after that the folks with the larger canopies or those who weren't doing high-performance approaches would come in.

Every once in a while, I'd be coming in and have some traffic left over from the previous load landing, but guess what? They're on final, they're the low canopy, so I would wait for them to begin their landing so I wouldn't cut them off or anything like that. If it worked out that I ended up having to wait too long and didn't have the altitude to do my high performance approach, then I just landed straignt in. No biggie, so I didn't get to swoop hard, who cares.

To reiterate, I don't think the system is broken, I think some people's thought processes are.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mirage62 0]

"The biggest problem I see are people who think they HAVE to hook EVERY jump. That in conjunction with how some folks fly their boats (s-turns on final, spiralling down to be the first one down and hosing everyone else's final, etc)."

I like you point about "boats" and believe that just being nice would go a long way. BUT do you start loading the plane by canopy size. The one thing that makes me want to go postal is to hear "Do you know what size canopy I'm flying?" Frankly I don't give a dang. If I below you I have the right away - period. I'll agree that S-turning in to the primary landing area (or the beer line) is in bad taste but just because someone wants to hook it doesn't mean I have to land out.

Having said that - that's what I do - land out and hoof it back in.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[AggieDave 6]

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I'll agree that S-turning in to the primary landing area (or the beer line) is in bad taste

re: beer line.

Alrighty, on most DZs how close is the beer line to obsticles?

Now, who (generally speaking) flys "boats?"

Now, what are the distance requirements for those licenses and are they "legal" to actually land next to the beer line at most DZs?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DBCOOPER 5]

"Frankly I don't give a dang. If I below you I have the right away "


Maybe according to the rules.But people hooking you out of the air aren't playing by the rules.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[mirage62 0]

Hence my last sentence

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[DBCOOPER 5]

I too was at Eloy at Christmas,and when the college kids had the alternate landing area I made half of my landings in the desert and hoofed it back.I lost a friend at Lake Wales in November,due to a hook turn gone bad.It would be nice to know what part of the ocean the sharks are in before you go swimming.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[mirage62 0]

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I'll agree that S-turning in to the primary landing area (or the beer line) is in bad taste

re: beer line.

Alrighty, on most DZs how close is the beer line to obsticles?

Okay a test.... I give, on average how far is it?

Now, who (generally speaking) flys "boats?"

Generally speaking students, or older jumpers who value older legs, knees ect.

Now, what are the distance requirements for those licenses and are they "legal" to actually land next to the beer line at most DZs?

Dang part two of the test guess I'll have to get my D lic. now.

All joking aside, I "think" your saying that (in general) that big canopies mean low timers and that is like saying a small canopy means high skill level.

Neither is true.

Besides what is a "big canopy"? 1:1?

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 3,008]

>Maybe according to the rules.But people hooking you out of the air
>aren't playing by the rules.

Right, but it's next to impossible to clear the airspace above and behind you (your parachute is in the way) so you have to go after the people who are breaking the rules to avoid these problems.

Case in point. At the DZ.com boogie, there were two canopies on final - a larger Pilot and a smaller elliptical something. The elliptical was above and behind the Pilot. Had the Pilot not flared, the elliptical would have been fine. But of course he did flare, which slowed his canopy and caused it to level out just in front of the elliptical. The elliptical then ran into the topskin of the Pilot. Fortunately he managed a low flat turn and thus avoided injury.

It would have been better to have _both_ people avoid that collision, of course. But once established on final the Pilot's pilot (ha!) could not see the elliptical, and so had no way to avoid him.

[sducoach 0]

In reference to your elliptical something, he was in the wrong place. No other excuse. There simply is no excuse to fly your canopy that close to another canopy on final at all. Land in another area or angle off to provide separation. Please don't even try to defend the elliptical something pilot for being in that position or being fortunate, he was only lucky.

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[DBCOOPER 5]

"Please don't even try to defend the elliptical something pilot for being in that position or being fortunate, he was only lucky."

Special rules for "Special People"

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[nathaniel 0]

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This, of course, would do nothing to prevent swoopers from hitting each other.

what we need is some kind of air traffic control...maybe based on spotlights or a modified VASI system

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[sducoach 0]

It might read, special rules for survivors.

I do enjoy swoops, they are fun, and do look cool when done correctly. Just don't kill me doing yours, and if you run over my canopy you sure are trying to!

(general "you" not you!)

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[DBCOOPER 5]

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It might read, special rules for survivors.


Special as in Special Olympics

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

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[sducoach 0]

Duhhhhhhhhh,

that is a good one, not politically correct but good.
thanks for the "remedial" training!

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[tbrown 26]

Special rules for "Special People"

[wmw999 2,460]

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Maybe we should carry sidearms ?

You were a Texas jumper in the '70's?
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mjosparky 4]

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Maybe we should carry sidearms ?

You were a Texas jumper in the '70's?
Wendy W.

I made some jumps at old Spaceland with a guy that carried a .45 in his jumpsuit pocket.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[MrHixxx 0]

One of the best systems I have seen so far is at Elsinore. 3 Landing areas: East side, students; center next to packing area, nothing above a 90 on final; Westside (across the runway), Swoop pond w/ low person goes first.

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[airtwardo 7]

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Maybe we should carry sidearms ?

You were a Texas jumper in the '70's?
Wendy W.

I made some jumps at old Spaceland with a guy that carried a .45 in his jumpsuit pocket.
Sparky

Oh Jeez Sparky...
You said you wouldn't tell anyone!
LOL!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wmw999 2,460]

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I made some jumps at old Spaceland with a guy that carried a .45 in his jumpsuit pocket.

He probably wasn't the only one. We used to shoot out the back of the trailer with some regularity on the DZ at the end of the day at the old Spaceland.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airtwardo 7]

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I made some jumps at old Spaceland with a guy that carried a .45 in his jumpsuit pocket.

He probably wasn't the only one. We used to shoot out the back of the trailer with some regularity on the DZ at the end of the day at the old Spaceland.

Wendy W.

Yeah, I knew a lot of 'good ole boyz' back in
Illinois that used to do that!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~