Genie 0 #1 June 7, 2003 Hi there im recently back in the air after about 9 motnhs out due to college. I have a protrack (present i havent jumped with it yet) and im getting a cypres cos a good deal arose from a guy upgrading to a cypres2. I have about 100 jumps sprad over about 3 years, including 2 longish periods of not jumping - this last 9 month and one of about 3 before. My question is about the flatline on a protrack.. I was thinking about what height to set this at. Because i am also adding a cypres to my gear, and have read a hell of a lot of discussions about the risk this can add with low altitudes (note havent pulled low yet, but theres always a first time). I was considering setting my flatline to 1500ft - on the grounds that if i hear it i go for silver immediately. I would be very interested in hearing the pro's/con's etc on this course of action and peoples opinions on the idea. I have jumped for the last three years without either an audible or a cypres.. ive enjoyed being independent and responsible for myself, (and was also broke :) but as im hoping to be doing more RW etc in the future both devices seem to be a good idea - i HATE seeing someones foot approaching my face! But i dont want to get reliant on either... Suggestions? Thanks Genie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 June 7, 2003 What altitude does the USPA recommend as a decision altitude for your level of proficiency? WHOOPS! Sorry about that, I just looked at your profile and you're in IRELAND! My feeling is that, unlike the higher settings you may want to have for your Pro-Track, at decision altitude it's no longer a matter of IF you've lost altitude awareness, but that you need to be reminded that you need to take care of any malfunction situation NOW. It's not a matter of relying on the last warning altitude alert, a siren in the case of the Pro-Track, but rather something you put there intentionally so that you have a reasonable amount of time to hear it and react properly to save your life. I set mine to activate at 1,800 ft AGL and almost never hear it. I sometimes hear it at the end of a long snivel on a minimum altitude deployment, but I'm also aware and plan so that if anything happens at those altitudes, I'm not going to fight it -- I'm going to chop it and deploy my reserve. There is nothing so useless as altitude above you.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #3 June 7, 2003 I have my dytter set on break off altitude (depends on the jump am making), the other one is 100 feets above opening altitude (i might loose about a 100 fts from when I hear it until I pull, I usually have it on 3100) and the last one is the silver beep and thats at 1800 (is what USPA recommends and I have never had a cutaway so I have no idea of how much altitude it will take me to cutaway, pull reserve AND find a place to land). HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genie 0 #4 June 8, 2003 QuoteQuoteWhat altitude does the USPA recommend as a decision altitude for your level of proficiency? WHOOPS! Sorry about that, I just looked at your profile and you're in IRELAND! Ten out of ten to you for checking that. Actually my decision altitude when starting off was 1800 ft and ive never mentally changed it. I wasnt thinking about using the flatline to tell me if you are at this altitude with a mal you need to chop now. I was actually thinking of it specifically as a "you have gone low. if you are hearing this sound pull your reserve handle NOW" partially to help reduce the possibility of a two canopy out because i will have cypres too... Is that the way everyone else uses them? first noise break off, second noise pull, third decision altitude for a mal? My feeling is that, unlike the higher settings you may want to have for your Pro-Track, at decision altitude it's no longer a matter of IF you've lost altitude awareness, but that you need to be reminded that you need to take care of any malfunction situation NOW.Quote but what if you are not in a malfunction situation? It's not a matter of relying on the last warning altitude alert, a siren in the case of the Pro-Track, but rather something you put there intentionally so that you have a reasonable amount of time to hear it and react properly to save your life. my thinking on it was not to rely on it as a warning altitude so much, but as a " IF you hear this noise (while still in freefall) pull your silver handle NOW. I set mine to activate at 1,800 ft AGL and almost never hear it. I sometimes hear it at the end of a long snivel on a minimum altitude deployment, but I'm also aware and plan so that if anything happens at those altitudes, I'm not going to fight it -- I'm going to chop it and deploy my reserve. There is nothing so useless as altitude above you. thanks for the reply - hope you will elucidate further :) thanks Genie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #5 June 8, 2003 Back in the day, when I got my first audible, it had only one tone. I was taught t set it for breakoff altitude. The thought process there is that the mechanical device, always prone to failure, is set as a "reminder." There are many personal techniques for setting audible altitudes that work well. I will say that a lot of it will depend on what aspect of the sport you are involved in. I am mostly involved in AFF & Tandem Instruction and casual RW (more on that below). I don't know squat about free flying, but I do see that most free flyers around me use two audibles and are very methodical about how they set them. For me, I set my three tones as follows: 1st tone: 6000 FT (student's "lock-on" altitude for most AFF jumps; 500 feet prior to my wave-off altitude for tandems) 2nd tone: 4500 FT (if an AFF student has not pulled a ripcord by now, I am moving to assist; minimum opening altitude for tandems) 3rd tone: 3500 FT (AFF student hard deck; 500 feet above emergency procedure altitude for tandems) I settled on these settings after trying several setups. I choose not to switch my settings between types of jumps, rather choosing to find settings that work for both. I encourage you to ask about a lot of folks' techniques, and taking what works for you and make it your own. I also encourage you to practice your emergency procedures and rely on your own skill and training, using the mechanical devices (audibles, AADs, etc) as a backup. There's a good column in this month's Parachutist magazine that speaks to that. Have fun and be safe!Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
callahan 0 #6 June 9, 2003 I used to have mine set at 5500 , 4000 and 2500 . I was noticing that sometimes I'd confuse my first two alarms with each other and that over time , I was in the saddle a liitle lower than I wanted to be . Recently , I switched to just having two alarms instead of three and I like it alot better . I've got the first one at 5500 and the flatline at 4000 . I usually dump at 3500 so that gives me a nice two seconds to look around and have a good wave off . At 5500 I give it a second or two to come out of my sit and go back to my belly . I haven't had a reserve pull but I wouldn't want a terminal one . The siren going off really gets your attention if the ground getting larger doesn't first . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #7 June 9, 2003 Formation Skydinving: 4,000 3,000 2,000 Breakoff, Pull, Shit hit the fan. AFF: 6,000 3500 2000. Lets me know we are at the bottom end, going through harddeck and where I was hoping to pull at (long spots on AFF), and then agian my shit hit the fan, consider emergency procedures. --Jonathan Bartlett D-24876 AFF-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heftee 0 #8 June 9, 2003 I have 3 set for me. First is about 300 feet above predetermined breakoff. This gives me a second or two to smile bye, break grips, turn and burn. I want to be free of anyone's grip at breakoff time. Second is set for 300-500 above pull altitude (300 if doing a solo or small group, 500 if doing a larger group). This gives me time to stop my track, look for clear air, wave and pull. On the larger groups (right now, 8 is considered larger for me), an extra second looking time. The third is set for 1900 - my personal decision hard deck - if not under a fully functioning, landable main - go for silver NOW, no questions asked. Hope this helps. ------------------------- "If you've never jumped out of a plane, the best way I can describe it is it feels as if you've just jumped out of a freakin' plane." David Whitley (Orlando Sentinel) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattoojeff 0 #9 June 10, 2003 GENIE keep in mind no matter what you set your audible at do not become "dependant" on your audible. ive seen alot of close calls because freinds forgot there audible in there other helmet or forgot to turn it on. heres a good idea given to me, set your first 2 tones 200-300 feet below desired altitudes. doing this forces you to be aware of your altitude by utilizing your visual senses and timing. if the audible goes off, your late, its good to "beat" your audible through awarness. they're great back up tools but shouldnt be relied on just like your aad. think about it,a freeflyer head down who is use to waiting for his audible to tell him when to pull forgets his audible in his camera helmet, gets out 3000ft lower than usual due to clouds. his inner clock is telling him he should hear his break off alarm soon but actualy he's just passed 1000 feet doing 160 mph.... hopefuly he has an aad, hopefuly his reserve doesnt explode... ive seen this scenerio 1st hand. i welcome others thoughts on this idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #10 June 10, 2003 Regarding not becoming reliant on audibles, I was given some great advice about this a couple of years ago. I was told to aim to hear the beeps just after starting to break off and to think of it as it saying, “well done, you were altitude aware”. I therefore purely think of my audible as a back up. For the record for 8 ways and smaller my warnings are set at 4,000’ (break-off), 2,500’ (pull – I am aiming to hear this after I have actually pulled, but in reality if I do f*ck up and hear this in freefall, it is not too late to get my Sabre open for 2,000’), 1,800’ (flatline – I have never heard this one but if/when I do I know it means do something NOW!) Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #11 June 11, 2003 R-Dub: 4, 3, & 1800 AFF: 6, 4, 2500 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #12 June 11, 2003 1: 1200m/4000ft Break off 2: 800m/2600ft pull 3: 450m/1500ft cut and silver,unless the main is working positiv on it Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #13 June 11, 2003 I just got myself a prodytter. Currently, I've got it setup at 3500, 2500 and 1500. My breakoff and pull hights are 4k and 3k, so if I her the tones, then I've gone low. It sounds sensible to me...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #14 June 11, 2003 My flatline is set at 2000ft. The higher altitude warnings are dependant on the task, AFF level, tandem etc. I have 17 cutaways, and have never had Cypres interference. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #15 June 11, 2003 17!!! That has to be near some sort of record... who taught you to pack?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #16 June 11, 2003 I don't pack. Of those 17, 7 are from 700 tandems - Broken lines, bag-lock, pressure knot, colapsed drouge in tow. 7 are from wraps and entanglements doing competition CReW rotation. 1 was a broken line on my Stilleto 1 was a toggle not through the ring on my Jonathan 1 was on a borrowed pintail in the middle 80's. So if you take out the crew and the tandems, 3 in 2500. Yes. I hook my reserve. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #17 June 11, 2003 My altitudes on my ProTrack used to be set lower, but based on some recent events, I have moved them up. My break off warning is typically set to 4500, but I will adjust that higher if I go on a tracking dive or something like that requiring a higher break off altitude. My pull warning was set to 3000, but now it's set to 3200. It's not a hug difference, but it's an added second to handle things. My final warning has been set to 1800 and as low as 1500, but I've since upped it to 2000. So 4500, 3200, 2000 are my current settings. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #18 June 12, 2003 My pro dytter is set to 5 3 and 2.. The first one I'll adjust based on what we've discussed as the break off altitude. I pull at 3.5 most of the time. The other 2 are set so that I should NOT hear them under normal circumstances. I used to have both of them set 500ft higher. I have a snively canopy and was regularly getting the flatline . After some thought and some good advice from here, I set my last two lower. This way, I don't get used to pulling when I hear the pull tone since machines DO FAIL. Secondly, I don't get used to hearing flatline and NOT become complacentI promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
