QuickDraw 0 #1 June 9, 2003 So i got a new (to me) rig, it has a pd190 9 cell main & a pd160 reserve. I have 35 jumps on a 240 navigator, about 18 on a 220 & 1 on a 200 and 1 on a saphire 209. I think you know what i am going to say anyway, but for those who don't... Would you consider this to be a fairly safe downsizing ? I have stood all my landings since i came off student status, although when i was using the nav 220's i could not slow the landings down i tried flairing slightly earlier and later but faster but to no avail (wind conditions were about 15-20knts on the ground too). I tried using a 200 and everything was sweet again (don't ask me how) The reserve size also concerns me too, i weigh about 220lbs out of the door and a 1.375 wing loading seems way too high even for a reserve. What are your recommendations & am i right in my thinking here ? -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #2 June 9, 2003 Error on the side of caution. Sounds like you have the answer you are asking us for. Don't downsize yet until you KNOW you are ready my friend. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #3 June 9, 2003 The main i am pretty sure i could land, but i hear that "voice" which i think was Billvons (could be wrong) saying if you can't land your canopy in all conditions then you haven't mastered it. I will not be downsizing for probably 300 jumps, not even sure why i even said that ? i may not even downsize at all. All the diciplines i want to do don't involve small canopys anyway, but i have to start somewhere. And my real concern as i said is the reserve, i will get grief for not doing a search, but its late here and i would just like a few opinions to chew over. [edit]ps. thanks for your input btw. [/edit] -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #4 June 9, 2003 Quotei am pretty sure Pretty sure will get you killed.. Just wait.. Until you are SURE. DAMNED SURE. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #5 June 9, 2003 QuoteSo i got a new (to me) rig, it has a pd190 9 cell main ... i weigh about 220lbs out of the door You are exceeding the maximum recommended loading for that canopy by 30 pounds. The effects of overloading an F-111 canopy have been discussed in these forums before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #6 June 9, 2003 Quickdraw...a serious question. Would you be willing to jump the 160 as your main? NO? Why not? It's your last chance... Look, if you're not willing to hang your ass under it as a main, there is no reason you should allow yourself to get under it...after a serious malfunction, with adrenalin coursing through your body, it's your last chance. I don't care how "good a deal" it is. Morphine drips run somewhere around $250, ambulance rides can be thousands of dollars, and hospital bills significantly higher. Not to mention the amount of repair work it will cost to repair your rig after it's been cut off you. That's not a deal. Not by a long shot... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #7 June 9, 2003 QuoteQuickdraw...a serious question. Would you be willing to jump the 160 as your main? NO? Why not? It's your last chance... Look, if you're not willing to hang your ass under it as a main, there is no reason you should allow yourself to get under it...after a serious malfunction, with adrenalin coursing through your body, it's your last chance. I don't care how "good a deal" it is. Morphine drips run somewhere around $250, ambulance rides can be thousands of dollars, and hospital bills significantly higher. Not to mention the amount of repair work it will cost to repair your rig after it's been cut off you. That's not a deal. Not by a long shot... Ciels- Michele You have said it perfect. How many people out there are jumping a reserve they would never use as a main? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #8 June 9, 2003 >Would you consider this to be a fairly safe downsizing ? I think you already know the answer to this question yourself . . . Listen to that answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenGriffiths 0 #9 June 9, 2003 QuoteYou have said it perfect. How many people out there are jumping a reserve they would never use as a main? Sparky That's a very good point - vice-versa how many people with an extreme main jump an equally extreme reserve - when you have a cutaway - you've got tha adrenalin flowing like crazy - the last thing you need is to have to land extreme performance reserve where the margin of error is small.---------- Ben G Still Sinking :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #10 June 9, 2003 QuoteThat's a very good point - vice-versa how many people with an extreme main jump an equally extreme reserve - when you have a cutaway - you've got tha adrenalin flowing like crazy - the last thing you need is to have to land extreme performance reserve where the margin of error is small. I did a poll here that got quite a few responses... it was specifically directed at folks jumping small reserves... I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear that the people that were capable and happy flying tiny mains, were also capable and happy flying tiny reserves! Here's the Poll "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #11 June 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteThat's a very good point - vice-versa how many people with an extreme main jump an equally extreme reserve - when you have a cutaway - you've got tha adrenalin flowing like crazy - the last thing you need is to have to land extreme performance reserve where the margin of error is small. I did a poll here that got quite a few responses... it was specifically directed at folks jumping small reserves... I guess I wasn't too surprised to hear that the people that were capable and happy flying tiny mains, were also capable and happy flying tiny reserves! Here's the Poll Reading your other thread I'm now inspired to do an intentional cutaway just before I need a repack.. Thanks dude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poohbeer 0 #12 June 9, 2003 QuoteReading your other thread I'm now inspired to do an intentional cutaway just before I need a repack.. Thanks dude Intentional cutaway? Why cut away and have the risk of damaging your main when it lands in a tree or something? Can't you just go directly for silver if you wanna fly your spare once? Or will/can this entangle with your still in the bag main then or something? ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 June 9, 2003 Intentional cutaways are kinda frowned upon, unless you have a rig set up for 3 canopies...-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #14 June 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteReading your other thread I'm now inspired to do an intentional cutaway just before I need a repack.. Thanks dude Intentional cutaway? Why cut away and have the risk of damaging your main when it lands in a tree or something? Can't you just go directly for silver if you wanna fly your spare once? Or will/can this entangle with your still in the bag main then or something? An intentional cutaway is where you where another reserve (chest mount) and deploy as normal then cutaway and deploy your reserve to simulate an actual cutaway in a situation that is not as stressful as the real thing... (At least this is how i've seen it done) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 June 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteReading your other thread I'm now inspired to do an intentional cutaway just before I need a repack.. Thanks dude Intentional cutaway? Why cut away and have the risk of damaging your main when it lands in a tree or something? Can't you just go directly for silver if you wanna fly your spare once? Or will/can this entangle with your still in the bag main then or something? An intentional cutaway is where you where another reserve (chest mount) and deploy as normal then cutaway and deploy your reserve to simulate an actual cutaway in a situation that is not as stressful as the real thing... (At least this is how i've seen it done) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a simpler way to do this. Ask your rigger to attach your reserve canopy to a set of 3-Ring risers and stuff it in your main container. Then deploy it by static-line (direct bag) or (disposable) freebag and play around with it. This method eliminates all the hassles of chasing expensive mains and freebags. Most manufacturers say that it is okay to do one or two familiarization jumps on a reserve canopy. Another method involves borrowing a similar-sized Triathlon for a few jumps. Since the Triathlon is also a 7-cell, it will fly similar to your reserve except for the hard openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 June 9, 2003 QuoteQuickdraw...a serious question. Would you be willing to jump the 160 as your main? NO? Why not? It's your last chance... Look, if you're not willing to hang your ass under it as a main, there is no reason you should allow yourself to get under it...after a serious malfunction, with adrenalin coursing through your body, it's your last chance. I don't care how "good a deal" it is. Morphine drips run somewhere around $250, ambulance rides can be thousands of dollars, and hospital bills significantly higher. Not to mention the amount of repair work it will cost to repair your rig after it's been cut off you. That's not a deal. Not by a long shot... Ciels- Michele >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good point Michelle, The first minute's ride in the ambulance costs more than all the money you save when buying gear. I am a bit burnt out on this topic. Yesterday a 240 pound glider pilot spend a half hour explaining to me why he was better off wearing a tiny, low-speed round reserve (Phantom) than a large square reserve (280 square foot). At the end of our conversation, he concluded that he was better off hanging from a tree - halfway up a mountainside, at sunset - than my scenario which involved him walking down a road with his large square over his shoulder. Clearly glider pilots and skydivers are not on the same wave length. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #17 June 9, 2003 Another method involves borrowing a similar-sized Triathlon for a few jumps. Since the Triathlon is also a 7-cell, it will fly similar to your reserve except for the hard openings. How many jumpers have landed under a 7-cell much less a tiny 7-cell. They fly and land quite different. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #18 June 9, 2003 Thanks for all your time & input guys, that was the sort of feedback i needed to hear. I am just eager to get in the air with my own gear & get down to buisness. I suppose i will have to look around for something that will fit the container, although it would have to be an F111, ....if i am correct on the container size, model no.SJ3 ? does that sound right ? I did look on the PD site at the wingloading charts, and did not realize that they did not recommend anything above a 1.1:1 for the 9 cell. Ok so any suggestions about what i can safely fit into this container, or am i stuck with it until i lose some weight or do i need to change the container too ? (which i think i may be the way to go) Thanks in advance again. I also started a diet today. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #19 June 10, 2003 1.375 is not high for a ZP canopy, but not for an F111!!!! They wont fly better with higher load. PD is recommending max 190lbs exit weight. safe langings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #20 June 10, 2003 Looking at the sizing chart, a different whole rig would probably be a better idea. The J3 (which is what the size you gave hints at -- the J3 is what I'm looking at) will go up to a 160 reserve and a 170 ZP main. The 190 is probably pushing it in the main container. I don't know whom you bought that from, but if you can return it, that would be best -- then you're not out any money. Otherwise, you could sell that one or trade with someone who's downsizing. At your size and experience level, you can probably land that safely. Most of the time. The problem comes when shit happens -- your bag of tricks will be much smaller to deal with it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #21 June 10, 2003 I was thinking of going up a size (f111) and losing a little weight, sorta meeting it half way if you know what i mean. Or fitting the best combination i can ...if i can that is. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #22 June 10, 2003 Thanks Wendy, it was a private sale but i am still more than happy to keep it. I have sent an e-mail to a local rigger to see what he suggests, but as you say the container might stop me from obtaining my goal. I am waiting to hear from him before i do anything else. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #23 June 12, 2003 Listen to Billvon's voice. He speaks for your still silent bones who wish never to utter their 1 word vocabilary. "CRACK!" tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
