Horseshoe

[Skylark 0]

"A loose bridle in freefall is a serious situation. The correct solution for this problem is to deploy the main pilot chute, but it may be very difficult to find if the main is no longer in the tray. This is perhaps the most significant problem with BOC deployment systems."

I read this on Skydivingfatalities.com. Is anyone able to explain why it will be harder to find my pilot chute when my bag has left the container?

I'm also curious as to why horseshoe malfunctions are supposed to be so nasty. Isn't it simply a case of deploying my pilot chute? Any help much appreciated.

"Into the dangerous world I leapt..." William Blake, Songs of Experience

[billvon 3,008]

>Is anyone able to explain why it will be harder to find my pilot chute
>when my bag has left the container?

If you have a BOC, the flap containing your PC is free to flap in the breeze once your main is out of the container. Makes the PC handle hard to find.

[tattoojeff 0]

not all horseshoes are as simple as the pilot chute being in the boc. if the bridle has snagged on any part of you or your gear clearing it will be much harder or maybe impossible. why is this so dangerous you ask? good luck getting your reserve out without entanglement, its going to launch directly into the horseshoed bridle. this is about as scary as a malfunction gets!!

[CrazyIvan 0]

Horseshoe=Skydiver's nightmare

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[rigging65 0]

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Is anyone able to explain why it will be harder to find my pilot chute when my bag has left the container?

When your main container goes slack, the BOC pouch will tend to flop up against your back, meaning you have to reach up "higher" than you normally would...plus the handle will be moving around as the bottom flap moves around...add to this the stress of having a mess over your head, and it gets scary real quick...

This is probably one of the bigger reasons why I jump a pullout.

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I'm also curious as to why horseshoe malfunctions are supposed to be so nasty. Isn't it simply a case of deploying my pilot chute?

In theory, yes. But lets assume you can't find the hackey, or if the p/c is out of the BOC but hitched around your hand/foot. Now you're forced to (quickly) try and get it loose (without loosing stability and getting wrapped in your lines), then cutting away. Now, since there isn't a whole lot of drag being generated by a heavy bag floating above your back, your risers may not separate cleanly. Assuming they do (or you pull them loose by hand after cutting away), you're still trailing that entire mess behind you...only about 8-10 inches away from the path your reserve deployment is going to try and take. Oh, did I forget to mention you're still eating up 1000' of altitude every 6 seconds???

Seem a bit more scary now?

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[nubain1 0]

So what is the best way to prevent this from happening?And what is the best way to fix this?I'm still very low in jump numbers right now.I have 37 jumps.So I'm still learning how to crawl in the sport,and want to learn all I can and be as safe as I can.

[BMFin 0]

Just buy the right gear and pack it right...

[rigging65 0]

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So what is the best way to prevent this from happening?

Tight closing loops, good bridle protection, GEAR CHECKS, being aware of you're movements in the plane (or whenever you have your gear on). There are also different main deployment systems that reduce the propensity for horseshoe mals...

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[billvon 3,008]

>So what is the best way to prevent this from happening?

1. Maintain your gear! On a throwout, a broken closing loop will give you a horseshoe mal (on a pullout, the main will just open early.) If your closing loop is too loose or your riser covers don't stay closed well the same thing can happen.

2. Watch your back in the plane and on exit. A dislodged pin can cause a horseshoe.

3. Keep your gear "clean" with no snag points. If you are using a camera helmet make sure that a line or a bridle has no way to easily snag on any knobs/hooks/projections on the helmet. Don't use boots with hooks.

4. Make sure you throw your PC as far as possible to prevent it from falling back on your back.

>And what is the best way to fix this?

If the horseshoe is due to a PC still in the pouch with the main bag out, deploy the PC. This will probably give you a mal, but at least you can then cut it away cleanly and open your reserve.

If the horseshoe is due to the PC/bridle being stuck on you, point that part of your body (arm, leg etc) towards the sky and shake it. If that doesn't fix the problem, and you have the altitude, you can try a hook knife, but be warned that this is _not_ an easy thing to do. If you get to your decision altitude and you still have the horseshoe, then cut away, try to get as much distance between the mess attached to you and your reserve as possible, and open the reserve.

[falxori 0]

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>So what is the best way to prevent this from happening?

1. Maintain your gear! On a throwout, a broken closing loop will give you a horseshoe mal (on a pullout, the main will just open early.) If your closing loop is too loose or your riser covers don't stay closed well the same thing can happen.

2. Watch your back in the plane and on exit. A dislodged pin can cause a horseshoe.

3. Keep your gear "clean" with no snag points. If you are using a camera helmet make sure that a line or a bridle has no way to easily snag on any knobs/hooks/projections on the helmet. Don't use boots with hooks.

4. Make sure you throw your PC as far as possible to prevent it from falling back on your back.

>And what is the best way to fix this?

If the horseshoe is due to a PC still in the pouch with the main bag out, deploy the PC. This will probably give you a mal, but at least you can then cut it away cleanly and open your reserve.

If the horseshoe is due to the PC/bridle being stuck on you, point that part of your body (arm, leg etc) towards the sky and shake it. If that doesn't fix the problem, and you have the altitude, you can try a hook knife, but be warned that this is _not_ an easy thing to do. If you get to your decision altitude and you still have the horseshoe, then cut away, try to get as much distance between the mess attached to you and your reserve as possible, and open the reserve.

thats a hell lot of things to consider and do in the 10-15 seconds you have left...
very scary

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[vt1977 0]

It was once suggested to me that it is worth, when under canopy (obviously after making sure airspace was clear) that I try reaching for the base of my container, where my BOC handle would be if I ever had a horseshoe. I have tried it a couple of times and it is surprising how much the bottom of your container has moved once the canopy is out.

Vicki

[Remster 30]

Vicki: dont forget that once under canopy, the container will also move up.

Remster

[vt1977 0]

Presumably the same could be true in the event of a horseshoe malfunction?

Vicki

[Scrumpot 1]

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So what is the best way to prevent this from happening?

I have also seen somewhere (a long time ago -was it on "Wolmari's" website?), and personally since adopted, a pilot chute packing procedure practice whereby the bridle is pulled from the center of the PC prior to folding/packing/stowing it in the BOC pouch so that the handle (or hackey) and the bridle s-folds are both EVEN with each other (rather than all the bridle in the middle or aven at the "bottom" of the BOC & the handle at the "top"), which in THEORY helps prevent a Horshoe in the event the container opens before the PC is pitched. Maybe someone else has seen this/practices this that they can point to the website I've long since forgotten to better describe/illustrate this procedure? I'm terrible at trying to saliently (other than in person via demonstration) explain this in writing.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[BenGriffiths 0]

Only scrumpot has touched on this.

(I believe) the way in which your PC is packed can have an effect on whether or not you get a Horseshoe (with the PC still in the pouch). - Clearly there's not much stopping a PC wrapping itself around your leg.

It is very hard to explain in writing but any packer/instructor worth their salt should be able to show you. If i'm not doign anything else i often try pulling on my bridle to check that it flows freely and extracts the PC.

----------
Ben G
Still Sinking :-(

[Clownburner 0]

Here's the link to that packing method for PC's. Seems like it couldn't hurt to try! This is how I've packed my PC for a while now (since I read the article).

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Scrumpot 1]

I found this searching the archives on "wreck-dot" from 1995. Don't personally know either of the originators, so I will keep this "anonymous". Apologies for the plagerization and if recognized by anyone who can lay credit to it, I'd be happy to give credit where credit is due. In the interests of altruisticaly trying to help out though, here goes...

-----
...a lot I've heard depends on the packing of the PC, and how the wrong
> way to pack it can cause it to bulk up and clog the pouch. Hope to
> find out more about that ....
>

Yes, there are several ways to pack a throw-out pilot chute. I was taught this in the days of cordura pilot chute pockets when the difference was much more important - a spandex pocket will not lock up nearly as much. (supposedly -since proven wrong or at least not entirely accurate) -gs.

However, it is still worth knowing about.

The one thing that makes any real difference is where you put the bridle attachment point (the base of the pilot chute). The best thing to do is to have the bridle attach point next to the apex (and handle). To do this lay the pilot chute out upside down, pull the mesh so the bridle attachment is on the edge then fold the pilot chute in half so the
handle ends up on top of the bridle attachment. Finish folding and stowing any way you want.

This means that in the event of a horseshoe (or the bag leaving for any reason before the PC is thrown) the bridle will be pulling at the entrance to the pocket with MUCH LESS RESISTANCE (instead of bunching & clogging up), and it should in most cases actually slip all the way out & maybe even extract the PC for you (early deployment vs getting an actual horseshoe in the 1st place). If you pack the pilot chute with the bridle attachment in the middle (ie if you
just fold it in half without pulling the mesh out) it will end up at the bottom of the pocket, and in the event of a horseshoe, the tension on the
bridle will tend to (instead) knot up the pilot chute, which makes it even more difficult to extract.

Try both ways on the ground and see what happens when you pull on the bridle.

...the extra 2 seconds required to pack this way is worth it to help load the dice a little more in my favour. If I am in the middle of a horseshoe malfunction fumbling with the loose bottom of my pack tring to get my BOC pilot chute out at terminal with 10 seconds to impact, I want all
the help I can get!
-----

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

THANKS JAMES! ...Yup, that is one of the methods. The most critical piece of this is steps 2 & 3 (pulling the bridal OUT from the center of the mesh then S-folding it (at whatever point in the process you choose) OUTSIDE of the center of the PC.

Personally I choose to do my s-folds laterally between steps 3-4, then fold the PC in half (from the handle-side) down over that & then roll. Others I have seen will fold the handle back over (so it matches with the apex/attachment point of the bridal) 1st, then S-fold along the length on the BACK of that & then tuck it in (the pouch).

Either way, if you then stand over your closed rig & pull on the bridal (holding the closing pin in place) you can readily see the difference in extraction force this makes! Most times pulling on the bridal (simulating the container having opened & the bag has left it with bridal now flapping in the breeze) after packing it with this method will actually even extract the PC autonomously! Not packing your PC away using this "apex method" usually causes the bridal to instead BUNCH UP & knot at the cinched BOC pocket entrance.

Try both ways for yourselves & see which is best for you. THANKS FOR FINDING THAT!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[wonko 0]

yes, this may be a great method. But the result depends a lot on your pc and your pouch. I tried this and result was I could not draw the pc from my cordura pouch (the 2-nd attempt worked, though :)) ). Test before you use.

villem
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