Are We Pulling Higher Or What ?

[tbrown 26]

I just returned to the sport after a very long layoff (22 yrs) and it seems to me like everyone's pulling higher than we used to. That's not a bad thing, but some of the breakoff altitudes leave me wondering what's going on. I've been in 3 ways with breakoffs at 4500 ft, when I questioned it they asked if I'd rather breakoff at 5 grand (not...).

One of the first things I noticed coming back is that canopies really do snivel a lot more than they used to, but the openings are sooo much softer now. So I can see where a "legal" pull at 2 grand might not leave you under an open canopy 'til below 1500 ft. Personally I was always comfy pulling around 2500 to 2800 ft anyway and would sit in above two grand, so I don't mind pulling anywhere below 3 grand. I'm not into pulling low, but believe people should at least feel confident (if not happy) about taking it down for things like safe separation. But we used to breakoff up to 10 ways at 3500 ft and everyone would be opened by 2 grand.

So has there been a change in thinking these past twenty years ? I'd just like to know what the current thinking is on this.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[mikeat10500 12]

Yep...we are pulling higher. Most people are in the saddle by 2000' ( or much higher )rather than in freefall thinking it's about that time. New slow opening HP canopies and AAD's are very common. Even I open higher now 'cause everyone else does( ok and I'm getting old too). And it's ok!
...mike

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[billvon 3,008]

>So has there been a change in thinking these past twenty years ?

Four factors:

1. Freeflyers have to break off higher due to higher speeds; this has trickled into RW (i.e. freeflyers are generally uncomfortable breaking _anything_ off at 3500 even when they do RW.)

2. Nowadays a canopy that snivels for 1000 feet is no longer considered bad, so 1000 foot openings are readily accepted.

3. People are jumping much smaller canopies and they like to pull high to play with them. (Note they still end up with a lot less time under canopy.)

4. Most jumpers now have AAD's. One of the big safety benefits that AAD's have brought to the sport is that jumpers now have a reason to make sure they are open above 1000 feet.

[tigra 0]

I've been in the sport since 1996, but I would have to say the answer to your question is Yes, people are pulling higher, and a lot of that has to do with equipment changes. Slower openings, aads, HP canopies with a perhaps greater potential for high speed malfunctions. It just makes sense to give yourself a little more time.

4500' breakoff for a 3 way belly dive? Depends on the experience level of the people you're jumping with I guess. Sucking a 10 way to 3500' is LOW in my opinion, but I've seen it and done it. And for safe separation, I've taken it to 2000' on big ways, but the ground sure looks big from that altitude!

[Watcher 0]

Canopy time is really fun why is 4 extra seconds at terminal worth loseing like an extra 15 seconds - 1 min of canopy time. Normal pin out nowadays seems to be at about 3000 ft, some go a bit lower, some pull a bit higher. Ussually I see at about 60 jumps they start taking it lower and lower and lower, hit 100 jumps and the shiny C license that says 2000 is OK and they take it to 2 grand (I was one of those). Then we start to realize how stupid that is, and take it back up to 3,000 where there is plenty of time to deal with emergencies and the long snivel.

I will say its freaky to exit first be open at 2700 feet and then look off to me right and see a 70 jump jumper falling past me without even having the PC out yet. Then ending up passing them agian, after they spiraled over the landing area, as I am screaming past them. It always creates a interesting situation and it makes me wonder if these guys are giving us enough seperation or if the people in the plane are rushing them out.

--

Jonathan Bartlett
D-24876
AFF-I

[JYorkster 0]

I'd say the 'standard' for smaller groups (8 or below) is usually a 4K break-off for a 3K pull. This is what we use for organized loads at the WFFC and it seems to be well accepted by all. Of course, higher number of jumpers means higher breakoff, but that depends on the experience/comfort level of the group.

Rock

[bwilling 0]

As another jumper that returned to the sport after a long layoff (17 years) a couple of years ago, I will comfirm your observation that people are indeed pulling higher these days than we did 'back in the day'.

And the canopies are indeed taking longer to open! I was on a 4 way skills camp dive that was going well, and broke off a little low after 'just one more' point, and by the time my canopy fully opened, my audible was starting to flatline (1500 feet)!

Welcome back!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[JamesNahikian 0]

We also enjoy a higher typical exit altitude than in days of yore, at least turbine dz brats do. There is less perceived need to push the envelope given this bounty.

D. James Nahikian
CHICAGO

[tbrown 26]

That's very true, turbos are such sweet machines, they get us way up there and fast !

I'd really like to thank so many people for responding, within the hour no less. As I said before, I'm quite comfortable and prefer to pull at or just below 3 grand, always have. I agree totally with thhe person who said things are looking awfully big at 2 grand, they do. My few jumps back so far - there will be a lot more as soon as I get another job - have been with Spectres and I've found myself looking up at the snivel and thinking, "now they said this would happen..." and then getting an opening that's something like "aaahhhh, wowwww, that was niiiice" and seeing 2200 on my Alti. It really does look like we're getting our opening safety together.

Now we just have to pay attention to safer canopy flying.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Amazon 7]

Hey there. I took off 22 years as well and yes definitely pulling higher... but then again I have not been on any bigways where someone is on my back at dump time either. I am usually dumping about 2.5 to 3k and dont personally have a problem with that... I always hated ground rush anyway

Amazon

[Hooknswoop 19]

Break off to pull altitudes have increased somewhat to get more separation on opening. A short track is no longer sufficient on high performance canopies. Research the number and results of canopy collisions after opening.

Hook

[tbrown 26]

Sucking a 10 way to 3500' is LOW in my opinion, but I've seen it and done it. reply]

Sounds like nowadays it would be from what I'm hearing. For those of us old enough to remember, it was quite normal and by no means radical, but we were also opening with a "fwop and a oomph".

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[mjosparky 4]

Tom,
Those of us who were jumping 20 -25 years ago and are still alive figure we gave the reaper his chance and are getting smart in our old age.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slotperfect 7]

I personally open 1000 feet higher than I used to.

12 or so years ago, jumping a Raider, I packed my canopy to open quickly (not hard), had pins out at 2000 feet, spiralled down quickly so I could land, pack, and manifest to maximize my amount of jumps per day.

Now I jump a Sabre2, enjoy the same soft snivellish openings that you do, and almost always have pins out by 3000 feet. I am always under a full canopy by 2300 feet or so.

Welcome back to the sport! Take your time getting used to the changes and enjoy the ride!


As far as breaking off a 10-way at 3500 feet, I agree that's a bit low.

Arrive Safely

John