Another wing loading Question

[spencer 0]

I have a friend who weighs 210lb/ 101kg, without rig, he is buying a new wings container with a 210 silhouette main, he has about 50 jumps and is jumping a student telesis with a 270 main.
He has been advised to get a 210 by people far more experienced than me, that a 210 will be fine for him, but he is far from ringing the neck out of the 270, is this bad advice.
thanks

[FallinWoman 1]

I personally think that a 230 would be a better starting place for him....I am a firm believer in a 1:1 wing loading for your first canopy.

Does this mean that he can't handle a 210...no....I just think that 1:1 is best for a new skydiver....

~Anne

I'm a Doll!!!!

[SanDiegoRW 0]

I would say... Demo any canopy before you buy it. Keep in the mind the day he demos the canopy might have good wind conditions. So once he has used that canopy and honestly feels safe on it no matter what the winds are like, I say go for it. But he should be very honest with himself about his comfort under that 210 before he buys one, because it's his life. Then... buy the main and after that order the container and specify that main. Wings did an awesome job building a container around the main and reserve I already had. Nice fit!

I do agree with the 1:1 advice FallinWoman has given. I have 100 jumps and I am at 1:1.

-Kenny

[CRWBUDDHA 0]

Perhaps one might perssue a path of "Positive Expectation" instead of Negative Reinforcement.....

It would seem that the jumper in question, obtained advise from those who know his abilities best......

Perhaps now, this fellow might better utilize your encouragement rather than lyour doubt........

Ah yes, "Doubt".........."That human experience that has no basis in fact but continually appears when the spirit yields from intelligence......."

Proceed to encourage those who would seek your company..........Become a mentor to those who may follow.........

CRWBUDDHA

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I know the canopy nazis will flame me for this, but what the heck.

People are all different and some can handle a smaller wing while others shouldn't (don't know where your friend is with his canopy skills). I do think that if he's never flown a 230 before, he should spend some time on one before jumping a 210. But a 210 Silhouette isn't exactly a killer canopy (yes I known anyone can be killed on any canopy). I'm probably only 5-7 pounds lighter than your friend and when I had 30 or so jumps, I thought I'd only be able to handle a 230 and the smallest I would fly is a 210 (ever). But in that time I have flown a 230, 220, 210, 190 and now a 170 (my current wing which I stand up virtually every jump in the faster thin air of CO). So as long as he demos/rents a 230 and can reliably stand those up, is cleared by instructors and/or canopy coaches who know his skill level, then he should be fine flying a 210.

Now if your friend was talking about buying something small like an elliptical 120, that would be a different story.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[JumpCrazy 0]

Ya, what you said.

I might get some interesting responses for this but here goes. I went from a 280 manta to my current 150 Sil. (my exit weight is 170lbs). I have no problem whatsoever with the smaller canopy. All of my landings have been standup including a couple no winders, a crosswind, and turbulent wind landings. I am very aware of my turns low to the ground and have avoided them rather than killing myself trying to land upwind or close to the target.

Not everybody can jump from a large to a small canopy so I am not saying that this is what you should do. This is just what I did.

The Silhouette is a very forgiving canopy but I can still kill so be aware.

Flying Hellfish #470

[Tonto 1]

Some things to consider,

210lbs fat or 210lbs muscle or somewhere in between? The canopy won't discriminate, but the ground will if he needs to run it off. Surface elevation, humidity and tempreture make a difference too. At 50 skydives, and at near sea level, he should be around 1.1. Maybe a 230? Any higher or hotter and he should consider a 250.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[billvon 2,989]

>People are all different and some can handle a smaller wing while others shouldn't . .

I agree. Some 100 jump wonders _can_ handle a 1.5 to 1 loading; it all depends on skill and training.

>So as long as he demos/rents a 230 and can reliably stand those
> up, is cleared by instructors and/or canopy coaches who know his
> skill level, then he should be fine flying a 210.

That doesn't follow. Standing up a canopy does NOT mean you can fly it well, it just means you pulled the handles down at the right time. Can he flat and flare turn it? Land on rear risers? Land crosswind? Land on a slight uphill? If not, then he may be progressing through canopies that will merely hurt him when he needs those skills and doesn't have them to canopies that will kill him.

I'd say if he demos a 230 _and_ can do all that stuff on it he's ready - not before.

[billvon 2,989]

>I am very aware of my turns low to the ground and have avoided
> them rather than killing myself trying to land upwind or close to the
> target.

Learn them! Nothing will kill you faster under a small canopy than having to turn low, but not having the skill to do that because you avoid them like the plague. Practice flat-turning 90 degrees up high, then try it down low. Make sure you can turn 90 degrees at 50 feet if you have to, and flare turn 45 degrees if you have to.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Can he flat and flare turn it? Land on rear risers? Land crosswind? Land on a slight uphill? If not, then he may be progressing through canopies that will merely hurt him when he needs those skills and doesn't have them to canopies that will kill him.

I stand corrected ... in fact there's two things that prevent me from downsizing at the moment. The first is that we're entering the hot density altitude months. And the second is that I haven't done all of those tasks mentioned above on my current canopy (mainly landing on the rear risers and mastering the flared turn).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[tbrown 26]

A good discussion. I'm just starting to check out new gear after returning from a long layoff. I've got a few jumps on a 230 Spectre, which I'm feeling pretty comfy with. I weigh 218, so exit weight is probably up around 245. Swimming, running on beach sand, and watching what I eat should get me down to 200 lbs or maybe just under, then we'll see if I can keep it there. Perris in the summer is a good place to try out canopies because it's at a 1400 MSL elevation and has lots of turbulence all summer long. Short of going to Denver, I can't think of a better place to learn canopy skills, anywhere else should be easy street by comparison.

Once I get consistent with the 230 Spectre, I plan on trying out the Sabre2 in a 210 size (which is as large as their demos go), as well as the 210 Spectre and a 209 Safire as well. If I need to stay up in the 230'ish range I don't mind, I'm 47 and am really in it for the freefall, I'll leave the hot swoops to the young hippies. The truth is, all the canopies, even the 280 student models, simply blow the doors off any square I ever jumped in 1980.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[rhino 0]

I frequently practice downwind landings.. lol

I only have to run a little.. Having practiced them under conditions of 10 mile an hour or less winds doing it with a 10+ at the convention was a little easier and less mind racking.. That is just me though.. JUST ME. DON'T do this UNLESS YOU ARE ME

Rhino