sid 1 #1 May 2, 2003 Anybody else get a laugh out of the letter in the latest parachutist about the new training programs? The dude obviously missed the point, there is already a system in place to weed out bad and dangerous students - after all we got rid of his ass! Happy paddling you assclown! Sid www.sidsrigging.comPete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #2 May 2, 2003 Yeah...thought the same thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #3 May 2, 2003 I re-read that letter quickly. I can remember my first ground course with Dave Cicarelli. As good as he is, there was nothing like having my butt under canopy and in the air to simulate the real thing. Yeah, I was nervous all of a sudden on AFP 1. Yes, it's true that we take a chance on people who may get through tandems and the ground phase that maybe shouldn't be jumping. It's a risk, but sometimes instructors can't see it until after someone's in the air on AFF or AFP or static line. Since we can't read the future and peoples' makeups perfectly, we will always have a bit of this stuff for as long as we keep welcoming people to the sport.| I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #4 May 2, 2003 ever stood on the ground with a radio in your hand, wondering if they'll listen? Walk and chew gum my ass, that would account for over 50% of the serious & fatal incidents occuring under good canopies right? I"m glad that USPA included the letter though.... SidPete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hooked 0 #5 May 2, 2003 Could somebody maybe post this letter you are referring to, for those that don't get Parachutist? J -------------------------------------- Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #6 May 3, 2003 It's from a guy saying that the new A-license requirements deter students from jumping and he said the cost has gone up by $1700 from when he first looked into it in 1993 until now. He has decided not to jump because of the cost and then went on to say.... "Here are my thoughts on the safety issue. The key to improving safety is not in more jumps to teach better canopy control, which is about as complex as walking and chewing gum at the same time. The key is in weeding out the incompetent students before they ever put on a rig. If you guys are really concerned more about safety than you are about making more money for schools, you need to come up with a program to test people's competence under stress before they get to jump. Intense ground drills, simulations, pre-jump boot camp, whatever. The type of people who drift into power lines and buildings without ever pulling a toggle don't need more jumps-they need to be denied training before they start. I'm sure you can come up with something to identify the chokers before they jump. You can save their asses and save the rest of us money at the same time. Consider it." Frank Marshall, Vienna, Virginia May 2003 Parachutist, page 9 Then, he went on to say he was going to buy 2 kayaks with the money instead.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #7 May 3, 2003 That's my problem.... I've never walked and chewed gum at the same time. D'oh!!! All that money and time spent in canopy class wasted. A package of Bubbleyum and a decent pair of walking shoes would've cost less, and probably taught me farrrrrrr more! Shit. I have to go get some gum and practice walking. Think I can learn how by tomorrow morning? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #8 May 3, 2003 Yep... I'm a student and I'd much rather pay the $$ to know that I'm getting good training. After all it isn't like i'm just riding a rollercoaster. My life is in my own hands and I'm going to be damn sure that I know as much as possible and am prepared thuroughly. Plus, two Kayaks for $1700. Those are pretty cheap boats. Let's just hope the bargain shopper doesn't think it's too expensive to pick up a life jacket and drown...matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #9 May 3, 2003 no - let him buy cheap shit - get ragged out equipment at whatever he does and take the absolute minimum of training while adopting a cocky "you can't teach me anything" attitude. It's called Darwinism in action and it helps stop the planet getting too overcrowded. Hey - all you SERIOUS skydivers out there (as in those that take what they do seriously) be safe and have fun out there this weekend...... Sid www.sidsrigging.comPete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #10 May 3, 2003 QuotePlus, two Kayaks for $1700. Those are pretty cheap boats I was being lazy and didn't want to retype his whole message, so I condensed it. The $1700 was the difference between what it would have cost him in 1993 and today, based off a $2800 figure that he was told it would cost to do the A licensing at this time. So, his kayaks are going to be the $2800 figure. That just proves to me that he doesn't want to do it badly enough if he's willing to spend the same amount on kayaking that he wouldn't spend on skydiving.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #11 May 3, 2003 [QUOTE]Those are pretty cheap boats[/QUOTE] Even if they were two for 1,700$ they wouldn't be cheap boats. Two kayaks for 2,800 would be NICE kayaks, but two for 1,700 would still be pretty sweet, i.e. you wouldn't get a stripped down boats, you'd get options. Offtopic, I know, but just wanted to correct your statement. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 May 3, 2003 Sounds like we weeded his clumbsy ass out of skydiving! Truth is, it is extremely difficult to screen students before you see them in the air. Some students have made me nervous on the ground and then flown gracefully. On the other hand, I have had students who were graceful during dirt dives and "lost it" on exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SanDiegoRW 0 #13 May 3, 2003 I think he's just a chicken shit that can't handle a stressful environment. He better not take his little boats out of his bath tub or he may drown. -Kenny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #14 May 4, 2003 skymamma - no worries...I just felt like ragging on him. I read that too. Didn't mean to nit pick. andy2 - I see where you're coming from, but I was thinking a couple "nice," aka... sweet, aka... loaded, you get the idea with all the trimmings and accesories you'd need to outfit someone for some touring in a composite boat. I just wish I could get my friend EMS Employee Discount. matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #15 May 4, 2003 QuoteTruth is, it is extremely difficult to screen students before you see them in the air. Some students have made me nervous on the ground and then flown gracefully. On the other hand, I have had students who were graceful during dirt dives and "lost it" on exit. Ya know, when I first started teaching I would try to predict who was going to do well or poorly. You might as well use a friggin crystal ball to predict who's going to do well and who's not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #16 May 6, 2003 OK he missed the point, but there are some right thought in his letter. This sport is not for everyone. I have heard of some stundents who after a successfull jump (with a round) when asked could not really tell what has happened to them, they were simply mentally not there. So, he is right that some kind of a quick psychological test or something would be usefull. Maybe if an instructor has 20+ years of practice he can tell right away if somebody is simply unsuitable. The tandem is the best for them. OVER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #17 May 6, 2003 >I have heard of some stundents who after a successfull jump >(with a round) when asked could not really tell what has happened to > them, they were simply mentally not there. Heck, I don't remember the first 15 seconds of my first jump. I remember climbing out onto the strut, then being under an open canopy flying into the sunset. I've had a lot of students who don't remember their first 15 seconds of freefall - yet still, many of them do the right thing and respond to signals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biscuit 0 #18 May 6, 2003 I work in customer service and respond to emails and letters written by all kinds of people about all of things. I feel like some people just simply fall into the category of Jackass. This man obviously does not know enough about how the sport works to make the judgements he made. He found himself a good excuse to quit and go paddling. ****************************************** The last mosquito that bit me had to book into the Betty Ford Clinic. -Patsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #19 May 7, 2003 OK there is sensory overload, which everybody has in the beginning, especially during first freefalls. But, the guy I mentioned after landing was not even aware of the canopy ride, so that is not a simple overload. That is a rather a system crash. Anyways, I am still not 100 percent sure that our sport is for everyone. (This is not some kind of a snobbism or feeling superior to the rest of the population who are crawling helplessly on the ground in the dirt like spiders, snakes and cockroaches.) Somebody physically not fit, somebody mentally. The problem in my point of view these can danger themselves and the other jumpers. So, somehow these people should treated differently (much more training) or be transferred for tandem jumps. OVER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #20 May 7, 2003 Let me get this straight: this guy has exactly two.. ( 2 ) jumps...so he should already be at least vaguely aware of the complexity of what he proposed to learn.... and he disses the masters he came to learn from by claiming their combined aerial survival skills are no more complicated than walking and chewing gum at the same time? Sure. And piloting cessna is simple as a go-kart...all it is is a couple more knobs and buttons.... Child's play huh? ok asshole, from the lofty height of your two jumps, go land a sub-150 canopy in a tight landing area while correctly predicting the courses of others avoiding traffic conflicts while in the middle of a pack of 17 canopies get it lined up level and on course for the peas with the correct glide slope and put it there while dancing on iffy winds. know when to hang back, when to full flight, how to crab, flat turn, fix a minor mal? Oh of course. He knows all this. canopy control is simple right? I got 104. I don't know shit yet. I'm under a 190. Cause I don't know shit yet. I don't want this guy anywhere in my sky when I'm skywalkin around... Fortunately his attitude has him solidly placed right where he belongs...on the ground. What a whiner...I paid about that same price he whined about to reach my A, and thousands more for hardware. Jet-A costs money. Aircraft cost money. His instructors have to eat and stay geared. Do the math. This sport is not for him. Hope it works out with the kayaks....Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #21 May 7, 2003 I wonder if he has the same attitude towards kayaks? "You know, kayaks, are simple a day of practicing than white-waters..." Maybe we have the bad attitude and this guy is a real pro in every sport and outdoor activity. Look he is a financial guru, a fast learner, has his own ideas, he has the ability to express his view to the public, physically fit for all sports. Vote for him. OVER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #22 May 7, 2003 Just because you can make it down a run at the local ski area doesn't mean I want you in the backcountry with me. Things get a lot more complicated when your time to decide how to save your ass diminishes. This isn't a soccer match or a class two rapid... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
