AFF, canopy lessons?

[poohbeer 0]

Attended AFF instruction last weekend. No jumps due to bad weather.
But in that theoretical session everything was explained very wel (freefall, emergency procedures, landing procedures, equipment, ..) but nothing was said about the canopy other than how to land.
From 5000 till 1000 we may have some fun with our canopies though.
Having fun is ok but just doing some turns without knowing what you're doing isn't gonna teach me much either I think.

So the question is, what stuff can an AFF student do under the canopy to have some fun AND learn someting about flying that thing at once?
I can hardly believe turning left and right is all an AFF student (even level 1) can do up there, is it?

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[lauril 0]

Dunno about AFF, but if your student gear has FXC-AAD's, talk to your instructor about the turns and spiralling, because even an agressive 90 degree turn can pop the reserve open, or the aad may become more sensitive and open the reserve the next jump...

And hey, remember to have fun

[andy2 0]

don't quote me on this, but I think you'd have to be flying a pretty small canopy to get to AAD firing speeds. I think the average AFF student canopy (200-290) wouldn't have this problem. But what do I know, I'm still a lowly AFF student

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[andy2 0]

can somebody confirm this statement? I fly a 260 student rental rig during my AFF jumps and always on the way down pull "aggresive" toggle turns, holding them for a couple 360s sometimes. Am I in danger of firing my student cypres off? I will ask my instructor, but if I could get a confirmation here that'd be great too.
*EDIT - I guess if you were doing this above 1k feet it wouldn't matter, since that's above cypres firing range. I just realized that! As a student I don't think you should be doing anything aggresive under 1k feet anyways, just concentrate on the approach/landing.

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[CrazyIvan 0]

One of my instructors told me once that the Student AAD will go off only if you have a NON-STUDENT rig with a Student AAD, so, when you get your own rig, install an EXPERT AAD.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Hooknswoop 19]

On your AFF Level one, you will probably be busy making sure you have a good canopy (controllability check) finding the DZ and getting there. I would recommend doing some practice flares on the way to your holding/staging area. Talk to your Instructors about this. Riserr turns/flare turns/stalls, etc can come later.

Here is some information on different AAD's:

FXC 12000: 40 feet per second (27.3 mph) NO FIRE and 65 feet per second (44.3 mph) ALWAYS FIRE (WILL OPERATE IF the parachutist is at, or below, the altitude setting and his rate-of-fall increases from less than 40 to more than 65 feet per second. )

Expert Cypres: Fires at 750 feet at 78 mph or more

Student Cypres: Fires at 750 feet at 29 mph or more (However, should the rate of descent be lower than that of freefall but still above the limit of 29 mph, then student Cypres activates the EOS (cutter) when the altitude decreases below 1000 feet above ground level.)

*Tandem Cypres: Fires at 1900 feet at 78 mph or more

A student or expert Cypres will not work if the aircraft is exited before it reaches 1500 feet and the Tandem Cypres will not work if the aircraft is exited before reaching 3000 feet.

The Cypres ceases operation below aproximately 130 feet AGL.

Sentinal MK 2000: Fires at 1000 feet at a velocity greater than 40% of terminal falling speed. (After 60 seconds of passing 1000 feet, the unit dis-arms itself).

Astra: Fires at 1000 feet at 130 fps (88.6 mph) or more. (It won't fire above 1,400 feet or below 115 fps (78.4 mph)

*You don't have to worry about the Tandem Cypres, I'm sure you won't be wearing one anytime soon.

Hook

[rigging65 0]

You'll learn at least a little more about canopy flight as you progress in your levels. Right now you need to concentrate on what your Instructors are telling you to concentrate on. Of course, if you feel you're under-trained, it's your responsibility to ask questions until you're confident that you can complete the skydive from start to finish, safely.

In the next few levels, depending on how your DZ is set up (ie- if they're using the ISP), you'll start to get more instruction on using risers and more in-depth discussions about canopy flight in general.

If you're not at a DZ using the ISP, it's quite possible that you will receive only minimal canopy training and will need to get instruction outside the AFF program on flying your wing. Sorry, but old-skool AFF just didn't have much canopy flight in it...but the new ISP does (which is one of the reasons it's a really good program).

Ask questions!!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[riggerrob 643]

Your instructors are just being professional. They recognize that you have to absorb a huge amount of information to survive AFF Level I, so they just taught you the basics of survivng a skydive. Once you prove to them that you can survive on a skydive, they will start teaching you the finer points of canopy control. It takes hundreds or thousands of jumps to learn the finer points of canopy control.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Dunno about AFF, but if your student gear has FXC-AAD's, talk to your instructor about the turns and spiralling, because even an agressive 90 degree turn can pop the reserve open, or the aad may become more sensitive and open the reserve the next jump...

And hey, remember to have fun

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please look in the FXC manual before you post statements like this. In 21 years of instructing I have never seen a student scare an FXC after opening his main canopy.

[porter1 0]

If you are spirling under 1k you need to get ready for a hard landing I would imagine. I have spiraled a 260 to past 45 deg angles and had no fire. I wasnt trying to get it to fire but was at 3k to 2k then emediatly went to reverse the turn. what a ride. it was a rental rig f111 PD. Cyprus . no idea which one though. I have herd horror stories about the FXC though. I wouldnt get to radical under your current rating. dont push it if you dont know for sure. even then you better have alot of confidence in your equipment. 1k is to low to cut away and expect a soft outcome.

[JeffGordon 0]

I have seen student gear fire the CyPReS fire while spiraling at least twice.

[CrazyIvan 0]

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I have seen student gear fire the CyPReS fire while spiraling at least twice.

At what altitude?, I spiral sometimes, even do 'reversals' but never close to the ground, maybe around 3K or higher.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[JeffGordon 0]

Both times were with experienced (A license) jumpers jumpers on student gear (> 200 PD nine cells) spiraling at or near 1000 ft.

[dreamsville 0]

I should start by saying that this an unscientific sample:

Someone we jump with used to have an FXC in his own rig about 4 years ago. He had it set at about a grand or so, and usually pulled at about 3000 feet on most jumps. Nothing wrong there. Unfortunately, one day he was rolling along at just above 2000 ft. under canopy and the FXC fired. 2 weeks later, again while I was there, just about the same thing happened. While it clearly wasn't the way it was supposed to work, I have been suspicious of FXC ever since then.

Roger: "Is that the first time you've had an AAD fire twice in two weeks?"

FXC person: "I don't drink."
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Samurai136 0]

Once you know you have a good canopy over head, learn how to read where the windline is. Practice crabbing, running and holding against the wind.

When you are holding against the wind, look for the spot on the ground that doesn't appear to move. That is your glide path to where you would land. Learn to pick that spot out after heading changes. This will help you develop some landing accuracy skills. Follow the AFF instruction for making an approach for landing; downwind, base, and final.

Don't fly your canopy downwind of the DZ. You probably won't make it back and will have to land off the DZ. Other than that, have fun and follow your instructors reccomendations.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[markbaur 0]

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Dunno about AFF, but if your student gear has FXC-AAD's, talk to your instructor about the turns and spiralling, because even an agressive 90 degree turn can pop the reserve open, or the aad may become more sensitive and open the reserve the next jump.

What is your source of information for this?

Mark

[nightjumps 1]

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Dunno about AFF, but if your student gear has FXC-AAD's, talk to your instructor about the turns and spiralling, because even an agressive 90 degree turn can pop the reserve open, or the aad may become more sensitive and open the reserve the next jump... And hey, remember to have fun

This has to be one of the most irresponsible "replies" I've read. One should not plant negative thoughts in a student's head that may affect their performance.

[mikeat10500 12]

Canopy control: We teach canopy control
including accuracy theory to the point of it being the
primary method of canopy control on the first jump.
Radio is used as back up only and to help with flare
timing. This skill can then be practiced on every jump. Students take FJC, do some IAD's until exits
and canopy control reach an acceptable level( 4-6 jumps). Then the can progress to freefall instruction.
AAD: FXC12000( rev J) no problems ever and 1 save. They must be maintained to work properly.
...mike

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Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.