AFF 6 question

[miniFly 0]

Hi, I'm redoing my level 6 aff, my JM said that I was dearched on exit and did a frontFloat, I regained stability by 11,000 but by then I was all unstable to perform the turns, and a bit altitude unaware, I even had an ustable pull and my canopy had like 8 line twists, which I kicked out of.

What's a front float?, I arched as hard as I could out the door and this is what happened.

Any tips for my next jump?

[Hooknswoop 19]

He probably either said or meant "Front Loop" or "Front Flip".

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Any tips for my next jump?

Relax. Don't think "Hard Arch" as that term usually brings muscle tension with it. Arch from the hips, relax your shoulders. If your elbows are as far up as you can get them, they are too far up, bring them down level with your shoulders. Keep your chin up, you should see the aircraft as you fall away. Watch altitude. Check your altimeter after every maneuver or if you are having difficulty completing a maneuver.

Of course, discuss any advice you get on the net with your Instructor, including mine.

Hook

[miniFly 0]

Thanks, Hooknswoop

yeah, I was a bit stressed out and tired,
being that was my second jump that day,
I need to work on relaxing :), all my other
jumps where pretty relaxed but on this one
my guess is that the unstable exit freaked me
out and wrecked my whole dive.

[mustard 0]

I notice that on the first release dive (usually 6), students tend to get a little freaked out about not having somebody holding onto them, and try to "swim" (read: flail) a little bit upon exit. If you trust your body position, then even if you get a little unstable at exit, it will settle out.

I suggest that if you are "floating" (which simply means hanging on outside the airplane), take your forward leg off the step so that you'll catch the air, look toward the prop as you leave, and then as you leave the airplane, take a DEEEP BREATH and let it out, then look at your alti. By the time that's done, you should have regained stability.

Let me know if it works. As you're quickly finding out, tension doesn't help us skydive well. Pretty soon you may find that you actually *like* to have unstable exits.

***
DJan

[Shark 0]

Where do you jump?

[DivinDon 0]

Today was my first release jump up until this jump I was happy with my performance.The dive felt very combative,jerky and unstable during debreif I mention I felt that the dive didn't seem very good to me my JM then said it was because I was so ridged and tense I didn't feel it but he did, so I was then on a 5 min. call hurried and got ready (only 1 JM this jump) and just tried to stay as relaxed as possible and not worrying so much on passing to next level.The dive went great went solo right after exit and had the best jump yet.Have fun,relax and it will all fall into place


Peace Don

[SkySlut 0]

Coupla things on exits...this will hold true from AFF thru your entire career of skydiving...

Start thinking of relative wind...not where the ground is. A lot of students seem to have a preconcieved notion that they must get belly to earth when they should be thinking in terms of getting belly to Relative Wind.

Where is the RW coming from on exit??? The front of the plane & general prop direction right???

What is the most stable position in freefall??? Arched position right???

So what is the difference between an arched position on exit that has your feet more or less pointed towards the ground and your belly exposed to the general direction of the prop as to a terminal position of belly to earth 15 seconds after exit??? Nothing really. The only major difference is about a RW speed difference of 30 MPH (give or take depending on what type of plane that you are exiting from). I suggest trying to think of it that way and yes keeping your head up and watching the plane fly away is a great way of keeping you stable on exit. Another tip is, depending on what type of exit you are doing...cheat and get your body as much as you can into the relative wind before you leave the plane. For example, on a floater exit....stand up nice and tall so you arent de-arched and close to the plane so you dont get hit with a ton of prop blast. Then turn your hips and chest towards the prop blast so you are already presented into the relative wind. Then let go, nice & lazy...arched to keep you stable and head up looking towards the plane...not down to look at the ground. You should understand this concept and trust in the arch and RW. It will sort itself out. Its much better explained with visuals, but that is my best attempt. Oh, for floater exits keep your arms wide on the bar (if you are jumping an otter/ caravan), it will give you better stability against the prop blast. If your hands are close together, you will get pushed all over the place.

Having good knowledge of the RW on exits will work with diving exits (keeping your line of flight perpendicular to the plane), works on more advanced Relative Work chunk exits, as well as freeflying (head down & sit).

Hope that helps.

[Michele 1]

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for floater exits keep your arms wide on the bar (if you are jumping an otter/ caravan), it will give you better stability against the prop blast.

I will try that today, if possible! Thanks for the excellent post - made total sense. I appreciate it!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SkySlut 0]

No worries, let me know how it goes!!!

[Michele 1]

I will.

And you're right - I tend to look for the ground....why I do that, I dunno...I know gravity works, I know where the ground is! LOL...

Will be working on getting into the relative wind as per your suggestions....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[JumpCrazy 0]

I had stability problems on exit during my pff as well. I found that the best way to stay in a proper relaxed arch was to watch the plane.

When you exit, look up at the aircraft untill you can't see it anymore because your head won't tilt far enough. It is a very cool thing to see the plane flying away from you and it worked for me.

Flying Hellfish #470

[SkySlut 0]

One thing that I forgot to mention...trail your left leg, so you can open up your hips and chest into the RW. What I do when I am instructing for hop n pops for license requirements. I tell them how to get into position (same thing that I have told you), but one of the requirements for "passing" the hop and pop is that they have to be able to tell me what handsignal I am giving them after they have exited. I have yet to have a student not be able to tell me what signal I gave them. They are so focused on looking at me that their body position is fine, nice & stable.

[miniFly 0]

Shark, I been jumping at Elsinore
JM'S there are great :)

Thanks SkySlut for the great advice, will try it this weekend.

[Michele 1]

Hi, Skyslut.

Well, I tried your suggestions on the exits (2) that I did today. Both brand new to me, one a stairstep accordion (I was center float on a 6-way), and the other one I forget what it's called, but I was front float (there was a rear float and someone in the plane on chest straps (a three-way). I didn't have the count on either jump.

The threeway went o.k. I had my arms wider, but was too scared to get the left leg out there. I was a little premature on the count...and somehow I got my legs under me, and consequently slid under the formation. But we muscled it out and got stable pretty quickly. I was not into the relative wind as well as I could've been.

The 6-way exit went much better, even with only one hand on the bar and jostling for foot space (I got scared and almost fell out...hey, it was jump #60! LOL). Once in the air, we were steep, but I got spread out exactly like you said, and, while I never saw the plane, I was splayed in the sky, and it was stable and managed to stay together for the most part (someone lost a grip, but came back).

All in all, not too bad for the first time really really concentrating on what you suggested and with all these other people. (BTW, the 3-way was wonderful, and the 6-way was a real challenge for me...).

Jumpcrazy

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When you exit, look up at the aircraft untill you can't see it anymore because your head won't tilt far enough. It is a very cool thing to see the plane flying away from you and it worked for me.

When I do hnp's, thats what I do, and it's generally been really excellent. I do find that when I jump with other people, I either totally forget to look at the plane, or can't see it because someone is blocking it. But I will continue to do as you suggest, until it's a regular and constant habit on all jumps...

I do appreciate the help, and these forums are a most excellent place to learn...thanks!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SkySlut 0]

Linked exits can be a bit more trickier...everyone has to play their roles on exit to make it go well. Think about it w/ RW again. Is there any difference between a compressed accordian out the door and a compressed at terminal...again none. So plan the exits the same way that they would be at terminal. Keep in mind your heading...so for a compressed or open accordian for that matter. The diver would want to go up and out, whereas the floater would want to go down & out. So, in theory, the chunk launches out perpendicular to the line of flight. Using your hands at the mock up so simulate where everybody's body is going to be presented into the RW on exit is very helpful. Its called doing "hands in". It gives everyone a visual representation of what they should be doing on exit. Well, I am glad things went well for you.

[SkySlut 0]

There is a really good article explaining chunk exits by John Hoover in this months Skydiving. Nice timing!!!

[Michele 1]

Thanks, Skyslut. Appreciate your help. I didn't do too badly, considering it was new people, and new exits, and jump numbers 59 and 60. But still....

I'll make sure I read the article (and I'll stop hijacking this thread - sorry!!!)

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[newshooter12 0]

But your hijacking is good hijacking.... lol. It's helping me too. thanks. matt

[covey 0]

I had to get unstable intentionally on level 6. I had to do a backflip out of the plane and then arch. I was the most uncomfortable on that ride up. Just put your hips into it and relax your upper body. If i don't keep tabs on my legs they still relax too. I am sure you will get a go on this next jump.

Believe those who are seeking truth. Doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide

[Shark 0]

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Shark, I been jumping at Elsinore
JM'S there are great :)

I had to look this up again. It's also funny that we didn't know who each other here on dz.com until I told you to talk to your instructors. Finally, I think you figured it out before I did! See, instructors aren't the brightest people in the world.

Anyway, I just wanted tell you that you did a good job on the Level 3 that Tom and I did with you. Keep up the good work as I will probably do the "A" license check dive with you soon. Oh, and read your SIM!

Later,

Mark

[miniFly 0]

Ok, now I did my hop and pop.

missing 2 coach dives a packing class 3 more target landings, oral quiz and that sweet A License is mine :)


P.S. Thanks for all the help man :)