Sentryforc 0 #1 April 25, 2003 Yall, I have a question about small reserves. Right now I have a PD143 and and I am entertaining the idea of going to a smaller rig when I downsize which would have a smaller reserve. The question I have is: How can an F111 113sqft parachute be big enough to land someone safely? I thought that you could only fly safely on ZP with a canopy that small. Can somone who is fairly big like me and had a ride on a PD113 share with me what that experience was like? Sparky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #2 April 25, 2003 If you have doubts you can safely fly and land it, then perhaps you shouldnt buy it....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #3 April 25, 2003 QuoteYall, I have a question about small reserves. Right now I have a PD143 and and I am entertaining the idea of going to a smaller rig when I downsize which would have a smaller reserve. Sparky Why? Why does your rig have to have a smaller reserve simply because you went to a smaller main? If your rig manufacturer won't make a rig to accomadate the size of your canopies, maybe you had best change manufacturers. Do a search on this site for discussions about relative sizes of canopies, you may find some very interesting information. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #4 April 25, 2003 I believe that F111 starts its life with the same perosity as zp, letting you create a nice small wing with the same effeciency as with zp but only for a small number of jumps ie a reserve. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone who knows what they're talking about will correct me. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #5 April 25, 2003 The cool thing is that PD has reserves you can demo. Complete with risers and bridle attachment point. If you search Phreezones posts he made a great posting with all the manufacturers phone numbers. Or just call PD or go to Square2 and see if they can hook you up. I can honestly say that if you are a big guy and if you must ask, then It's probably too small. You will know when your ready if you listen to yourself. In the right hands it's just fine. In the wrong hands it's a helicopter ride. One thing you have to ask and this goes for a main as well. Can you land it in someones back yard between the porch and the swing set? <== You get the Idea. Thats just breaching the subject. My experience is this. I have a tiny reserve. I have a few jumps also. It takes all my skill while landing it. I recently purchased a larger one cuz I'm tired of having use every bit of skill (luck fits in there too) to land safely. The perfect set up for me would be my current main (78 Xaos) with a 126 reserve. It's SO much nicer to have a larger reserve to land under extreme circumstances. Hope that helpsMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #6 April 25, 2003 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=305151 Here's an old thread where people discuss their experiences with various sized reserves... But if you're in doubt, the smartest thing to do would be to go bigger, the next smartest thing to do would be to demo the size you're considering buying, (under ideal circumstances, of course!)... then decide. Good Luck! "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 April 25, 2003 Here is a link to al lthe major manufators on demo info. PD and PA both have demo reserves. I'm not down sizing my reserve till I make about 10 practice jumps on a demo reserve and can basically qualify for my pro rating under the smaller size.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #8 April 25, 2003 >the same effeciency as zp but only for a small number of jumps ie a reserve. Right, although it's repacks, not deployments, that wear out a reserve. A reserve that's been jumped 20 times isn't much different from a porosity point of view than one that's just been repacked 20 times - if it's well cared for and kept out of the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 April 25, 2003 QuoteYall, I have a question about small reserves. Right now I have a PD143 and and I am entertaining the idea of going to a smaller rig when I downsize which would have a smaller reserve. The question I have is: How can an F111 113sqft parachute be big enough to land someone safely? I thought that you could only fly safely on ZP with a canopy that small. Can somone who is fairly big like me and had a ride on a PD113 share with me what that experience was like? SparkyIs there any particular reason you feel the need to go smaller? At most you will save just a handful of cu. in.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #10 April 25, 2003 >Right now I have a PD143 and and I am entertaining the idea of > going to a smaller rig when I downsize which would have a smaller > reserve. That's a really bad idea. Choose a reserve you can land anywhere in bad winds after you had a low cutaway, not one you might just be OK landing under perfect conditions. It's a good idea to try before you buy. PD will let you demo reserve canopies. If you try a reserve, and can land it downwind with no problems, it's probably a good size for you. If the very thought of doing that fills you with fear and foreboding, then go up a size or two. If you can't get a PD reserve then try a triathalon of similar size - they fly somewhat like 7-cell reserves. It will at least give you a sense of what it will be like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheneyneel 0 #11 April 25, 2003 Man I am a big guy.. 240lbs out of the door.. I pondered the same questions when getting a new rig.. And with advice like people here are giving..DEMO DEMO DEMO.. I found that after putting 20 jumps on a PD126R I found it very suitable to land anywhere.. Plus it is small when packed eventhough it is actually 135 sq feet or so in realy measurements.. DEMO, DEMO,DEMO is all I cant tell you from expierence.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #12 April 25, 2003 Just last Sunday I landed a 1993 Micro Raven 120 off-field in no wind conditions, 1.7/1 wingloading. I took home a dirty jumpsuit. But it landed..uh..OK. Definitely stalls, well, brisk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #13 April 25, 2003 Do you really want to land down-wind, unconscience, under a 113? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #14 April 25, 2003 QuoteJust last Sunday I landed a 1993 Micro Raven 120 off-field in no wind conditions, 1.7/1 wingloading. I took home a dirty jumpsuit. But it landed..uh..OK. Definitely stalls, well, brisk. I dunno how different the flight characteristics would be for me, but I have a microraven 120 loaded at a little under 1.1. Got any other tips now that you've seen how it flies? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #15 April 25, 2003 If your downsizing involves buying a new container then take a look at the Wings from Sunrise Rigging. Sunrise builds containers sized for larger reserves and smaller main. I think it's worth considering. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #16 April 25, 2003 Quote If your downsizing involves buying a new container then take a look at the Wings from Sunrise Rigging. Sunrise builds containers sized for larger reserves and smaller main. I think it's worth considering. - Jim So do Jump Shack (Racer) and Mirage. That's what TLML and I jump, respectively. She has a Safrie 149/Tempo 170 and I have a Safire 229/PD 253. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #17 April 26, 2003 People should consider their reserve performance more when jumping. Would be kind of ironic if your reserve safes your arse first and then kills you in a landing . I grounded myself on Thursday when the wind at the DZ reached 16 - 20 knots. My Safire could have handled it fine, but I was not so sure about my reserve and I think people should base decisions in regard to which weather and ground conditions to jump in on what they believe their reserve can handle. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdirttorpedo 0 #18 April 26, 2003 Go with an M1Z size from Mirage. You can fit an AIRLOCKED 89sf main and your 143 reserve and they make it in a way where it won't look stupid either Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #19 April 28, 2003 Quote .....I have a microraven 120 loaded at a little under 1.1. Got any other tips now that you've seen how it flies? I didn't just see it, I was a full fledged participant. The wingloading difference would not make for a good comparison. The extent of my experience with the 120 Micro Raven was: Check canopy, stow handles, find a place to land, clear brakes, spot main and freebag, pick a landing direction, 180 toggle hook, crappy surf, run like hell, fall on face. - it was over in less than 30 seconds. I'm sure you would have no problems with that canopy. But, if you want to know how your reserve flies, demo one - don't wait until you have no choice in the matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poohbeer 0 #20 April 28, 2003 I don't realy get this.. Reserves aren't ment to be fun to fly. They are ment to save lives. Everybody agrees that a big 280 is way easier and more gentle then a 120 sq f. So why doesn't everybody use that biggasschute as a reserve so that even when unconsious the landings are doable? Read the sig ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #21 April 28, 2003 Because "smaller rigs look better" seems to be the current line of thinking. Fashion has taken a back seat to safety lately in skydiving. People are more worried about getting stainless hardware then they are about getting hard inserts for their risers, they are more worried about getting the smallest rig as possible instead of a reserve they can land anywhere, and they seem more worried about getting a canopy that can swoop the furthest with out learning to fly the canopy they have now.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 April 28, 2003 It's all about fashion. Tiny rigs make your butt look bigger, so all the skygods and wannabee skygods buy tiny rigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philipbelgium 0 #23 April 29, 2003 Please read the story of the sorry accident which happened last week in Deland. One of the victims was heavily wounded as his highly loaded reserve smacked his unconscious body on the runway. You should always have in mind that thanks to your Cypres you may be flying that reserve unconscious or heavily wounded. Downsize your main as much as you want, but your reserve is a backup: be more conservative with it. Rather look into suggestions of switching manufacturers as to allow a small main with a bigger reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #24 April 29, 2003 Well how big are you? I think going from a 143 to a 113 is madness on any downsize - let alone a reserve. I have a 120 Tempo loaded to 1.65, and I'm landing hot at 5000ft ASL - and I've had no problems on my last 3 landings at all. Shorter swoop sure, but not harder in any way. My main is a 107 Stilletto. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #25 April 29, 2003 QuoteDo you really want to land down-wind, unconscience, under a 113? my feeling is that if that's the case, you have bigger problems. you wouldn't be significantly better off under a 143 in that circumstance. you have to take different precautions to prevent being in that situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
