Kuper 0 #1 April 21, 2003 i havn't my A license yet but i was wondering... which one of the risers do what? according to what i know (which is not enough yet) the rear risers should be an optional way to steer the canopy. but if the toggles are OK - why would i want to use the rear risers? is it's influence more fast and massive? i see guys do great hoops - not only near the ground - i'm talking about fast and hard continually circles with face to ground - still in a high alti. are they use the risers? which one? if so - what the other risers do? is it safe to use them in student (club) rigs? Ori.http://www.orikuper.printroom.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 April 21, 2003 I think I'll leave the explanation on the use of the front and rear risers when it comes to landing (even though I use them on virtually all of my landings) to one of our more experienced people here (I'm just a 200+ jump wonder who shouldn't be teaching people how to land with risers). But one area where all skydivers need to use their rear risers on virtually every jump is during your opening sequence. It's important to be able to control your canopy during it's snivel and opening phases. So once you pitch your pilot chute and the dbag lifts off of your back, you need to be reaching for your rear risers to be able to anticipate controlling a diving canopy and thus avoid a possible collision with another skydiving during their opening sequence. Hopefully I made some sense here. PS: By the way, those guys you speak of doing those spiraling dives are likely (but not always if they are just toggling) using their front risers in what is know as a carving turn. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #3 April 21, 2003 >i havn't my A license yet but i was wondering... which one of the risers do what? Uh, don't they cover that in Israeli FJC's? Rear risers do something similar to what toggles do. You can turn and land with them if your brakes fail (broken line etc.) Some points: 1. It's harder to pull them down 2. They distort the canopy in a different place, producing a different result than brakes 3. Usually they can be used to flare but will not "stop" a canopy as effectively as brakes will 4. On some canopies, spreading the rear risers (with the slider all the way down) or pulling them down a bit will extend your glide in no-wind conditions 5. They can steer your canopy before it's even fully open, making them useful in avoiding collisions with other jumpers. Also, if you flare with them, use both of them i.e. don't flare with one brake and one rear riser. Front risers can be used to increase your descent and forward speeds. Many jumpers turn to final with their front risers to add speed - this gives them more energy to flare with and thus a longer planeout. >i'm talking about fast and hard continually circles with face to >ground - still in a high alti Probably just a toggle turn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #4 April 21, 2003 Look where your brake lines are attatched. Using toggles only deflects the trailing edge of the canopy. Look at the rear risers. They contain the C and D lines. Very small inputs to the rear riser(s) will create significant lift for a short period of time. The front risers contain the A and B lines. Front riser input will pull the leading edge down and make the canopy dive a lot faster. The spirals you are talking about are most likely being accomplished by pulling a front riser down. Talk to the other canopy pilots on your Dropzone and ask them to explain it to you. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #5 April 21, 2003 QuoteThe spirals you are talking about are most likely being accomplished by pulling a front riser down. I would have to say that they are most likely not caused by pulling a front riser down. J That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #6 April 21, 2003 what i got out of his description did not sound anything like a carving turn. j That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuper 0 #7 April 21, 2003 thanx guys! your answers helps a loti'll ask the one who do that things anyway, but do you think there is any problem that i'll do that - still on a student gear? p.s. they DO teach us that during the AFF lessons in here in Israel - about the rear risers as an option when we have broken lines etc. OR when we want to move from a crash with another parachute in front of us during opening... but they didn't tell us how to do those great spirals... it looks very fun though... http://www.orikuper.printroom.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuper 0 #8 April 21, 2003 Quote I would have to say that they are most likely not caused by pulling a front riser down. what i got out of his description did not sound anything like a carving turn. what do you mean? probably i don't know the right phrase for this - but what people wrote here sounds like the thing that man does - it looks like a long and fast spiral downface. if it's not - what can it be and how he do that?http://www.orikuper.printroom.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarge 0 #9 April 21, 2003 Yup! They are beautiful, aren't they? and fun... Try some high throws, like 6-7,000+ (or better ie: full alti hops) now, after you're clean, draw one or the other toggle to full extension; leave your other full up. Go a couple/few rotations then let it go smoothly back to full glide and get a mindset on your bearings. If you're not disoriented...; check your traffic in 360' your alti, sight picture and, if safe, do it again in the opposite direction. Repeat as above, However, don't repeat below 2,000 (Just in case you need to execute emergency procedures). Watch carefully as you bleed your altitude. This is a learning excercise! Your canopy design and wingload will fly in a way that is unique to you. Every pilot, beginner, novice, expert, Master; must develop his/her own relationship with the canopy. This relationship is built first and foremost on a foundation of trust.... I don't mean that a canopy won't fly you safely if you don't trust it, but rather, don't expect more from it than it is capable of; especially if you don't trust it. -So you must first know your canopy. (the 'you' pilot-side of this is a whole nuther discussion, but since you asked...) If 'you' can't test it, then how can you "really" trust it? Hard, deep toggle turns distort your canopy planform. As speed builds and the duration of the turn continues the remaining planform is most unstable. It is possible to remain in this spiraling condition infinately; in ideal condtions; these conditions rarely exist in our real environment. On an oblique spiral, a gusty x-wind, momentum of your body twisting sideways, expect that these might be a few explanations for why your caopy collapsed or spun-up into 140,000 line twists. No biggie, if you're still conscious, and still have altitude. Ok, so I have only scratched the surface of the concept of the incremental approach to canopy flight exploration. Be high and wild and low and mild. Peace. .-- I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #10 April 22, 2003 ***i havn't my A license yet but i was wondering... which one of the risers do what? according to what i know (which is not enough yet) the rear risers should be an optional way to steer the canopy. but if the toggles are OK - why would i want to use the rear risers? is it's influence more fast and massive? i see guys do great hoops - not only near the ground - i'm talking about fast and hard continually circles with face to ground - still in a high alti. are they use the risers? which one? if so - what the other risers do? is it safe to use them in student (club) rigs? thanx for your answers, *** Playing right into my handsGet the Canopy 150 book by Skydive U all that and more is covered http://www.skydiveu.com/flash/videos.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
