DivinDon 0 #1 April 7, 2003 THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST!!!There is word of a wind tunnel coming to my DZ this summer.I mentioned this to an instuctor and he said most tunnels are around $25/min. is that a close assumption?My other question is at that price would I be better off just buying the jumps and getting the canopy experience that I also need since I have low jump numbers.I am on aff 5 and I have a slight left turn.I talked with my JM and he thinks my legs are spread to far and feet position( 1 being lower or higher than the other) could be the cause of the turn.The levels only get more intense so I would like to catch this turn problem asap so that it does not become an extreme problem for me.Thanks for reading and any input that might follow...............Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #2 April 7, 2003 The wind tunnel is great for solving problems like yours. By the time a new tunnel opens I'm sure you'll have corrected it and finished AFF, but you definitely can learn things in the tunnel that you can't in freefall (and vise versa of course). The tunnel really lets you see how you're moving relative to the fixed reference frame, as opposed to what you can get in freefall, relative to another jumper. A few minutes of coaching in a tunnel is probably much more valuable than a few skydives as far as what you'll learn. But it's definitely not as fun as the real thing, and you don't get the canopy ride. How you spend your money is up to you, but if you'd like to spend it on improving your skills, the tunnel is probably cheaper for the same outcome. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #3 April 7, 2003 the wind tunnel is amasing, with a good coach you will learn the true meaning of stability. One of the exercises I had to do in the tunnel was swimming while keeping stability kinda hard to do but you get a good information of your body, the other good thing of the tunnel is that you can actually see if your turns are in place or no, you can fix the problems by looking at the mirror, the coach will tell you what you are doing wrong etc. advice: get at least 20 mins of tunnel with coaching if you go to one, is it worth it? yeah it is. It's gonna be about 300$, and if you can get coaching with Rob Laidlaw, after you get his coaching you will know why I said it. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 April 7, 2003 You're correct in that it can't teach you anything about canopy flight or emergency procedures. However, the wind tunnel is an excellent tool for training basic body flight skills like you'll be using in your AFF course. There is a theory that it's more effective for people to learn some of those skills in a wind tunnel because it removes (or lessens to a great extent) the anxiety that most students have about skydiving in general and they can focus on the body position aspects. In other words, the student doesn't have to constantly be thinking "check altitude, check left, check right, check altitude, gotta deploy, gotta deploy, gotta deploy" but instead is actually thinking about his position. If you can get some time in a -quality- wind tunnel -- it'll be worth it in the long run. On the other hand, a fly-by-night amusement park type traveling wind tunnel, might not be worth even considering.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RozeAY 0 #5 April 7, 2003 QuoteThere is word of a wind tunnel coming to my DZ this summer. I agree that a wind tunnel (like Skyventure) is a very useful tool but is this post referring to a portable wind tunnel? Because if it is, it is possible that poor body position would be learned because you would be trying to grab air. And if it is more expensive per minute, it would be better to buy the lift ticket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #6 April 7, 2003 Quote "check altitude, check left, check right, check altitude, gotta deploy, gotta deploy, gotta deploy" good to add "earth is comming! earth is comming! earth is comming!" another good thing of the tunnel is that you don't have to worry about giving a good presentation to the relative wind, its very easy to do it in the tunnel and wont be loosing to much altitude if don't get it right HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #7 April 7, 2003 what is your assessment of the tunnel in Pigeon Forge, TN? Haven't been there, so I dunno... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivinDon 0 #8 April 7, 2003 thanks for the quick replies.I am hoping the tunnel that is coming will not be an amusement ride but a legit learning tool.It seems that it will be quite helpful given it is well coached I do not have any info as to who owns or who will be coaching the tunnel but will keep you guys updated when it gets there and how useful it is or if it is just a toy and a waste of time Thanks again Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivinDon 0 #9 April 7, 2003 yes it will be a portable any pros or cons of that type of tunnel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivinDon 0 #10 April 7, 2003 I have not been there but have heard to keep going south till you are in Florida for a good tunnel session Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RozeAY 0 #11 April 7, 2003 The portables don't have the power that permanent tunnels do to get good air flow. To be able to fly in the portable you will more than likely have to wear a baggy suit in order to grab enough air to fly. At which point all of your energy will be spent in an awkward body position trying to stay in the flow of air that you won't be able to work on good body position or learn any kinds of turns or anything like that. I'd go to Skyventure in Orlando and work with a coach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #12 April 7, 2003 I went there a LONG time ago, before I was a skydiver. I have been to SkyVenture in Orlando since becoming a skydiver. While my perspective was very different at SkyVenture, as I look back at PF, there were some differences worth mentioning. First, I really don't think you get the wind speed at PF that you get at SkyVenture. Second, the wind speed at PF is a lot lower as you move away from the center of the column of air. You get a little of this effect at SkyVenture, but at PF you will really notice that you fall off the air if you get out of the center of the tunnel. All in all, I thought SV was better, but I did not feel like I got as much out of my coached tunnel time as some people here say. Part of the problem was that I did not take my own jumpsuit, so I had to learn to fly in their big baggy jumpsuit with the crotch down at my knees. This put tons of drag on the back end, so I had to backslide hard to stay still. If you go, definitely take your own jumpsuit. BMcD... ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #13 April 7, 2003 Wind tunnel= EXCELLENT tool, however my friend, I recommend you BRAND IN YOUR HEAD that you must 'pretend' to check your altitude every so often, you will have to keep in mind that every tunnel round will last 2 minutes (equivalent to 2 jumps) so, practice what you need to practice but always remember that you are 'skydiving', that way, when you actually jump, you don't miss anything.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #14 April 7, 2003 QuoteI recommend you BRAND IN YOUR HEAD that you must 'pretend' to check your altitude every so often, Why? You won't be increasing your altitude awareness any by doing that in a tunnel. I thought the advantage of learning in a tunnel was that you could pretty much put full concentration towards body postions and movements.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 April 7, 2003 Quotewhat is your assessment of the tunnel in Pigeon Forge, TN? Haven't been there, so I dunno... Me neither!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #16 April 7, 2003 3 things: 1) I just got back from the skyventure and spent $10/min. with coaching. however arlo did hook me up so i don't know what regular cost is (Thanks again, I owe you some beverages of your choice next time i'm there). 2) the tunnel is an awsome tool, i learned a great deal and have noticed substantial changes in my flying even though i've only made 3 or 4 jumps since then. 3) search dz.com about wind tunnels and find a post from arlo about it. there is a lot of great info. Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #17 April 7, 2003 Quote 1) I just got back from the skyventure and spent $10/min. with coaching. however arlo did hook me up so i don't know what regular cost is Thats the regular price when you buy hour blocks ($600/hr). Interestingly, I recently found out that's about the same price as it costs to use the horizontal research wind tunnel at my school. Course this one includes measurements in 6 components of force/moments. Who wants to go in on an hour and get our drag coefficients? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #18 April 8, 2003 QuoteQuotewhat is your assessment of the tunnel in Pigeon Forge, TN? Haven't been there, so I dunno... Me neither! It's made from the same building plan as the Las Vegas wind tunnel. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 April 8, 2003 In that case -- it probably isn't very good. The wind tunnel at Vegas is, to put it politely, not optimal for real world training. Definatley not a smooth airflow and what airflow there is isn't very strong.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #20 April 8, 2003 Quote In that case -- it probably isn't very good. The wind tunnel at Vegas is, to put it politely, not optimal for real world training. Definatley not a smooth airflow and what airflow there is isn't very strong. So, then little ol' me, of my size and stature, would be just great for this thin airflow, right? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #21 April 8, 2003 The Portible one at WFFC had very experienced skydivers falling off the airflow when they would try to make some minor body changes. Unless its Skyventure or the VS1 design... I would'nt waste my time or money. The portible ones 99% of the time require a balloon suit to fly in too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #22 April 8, 2003 QuoteSo, then little ol' me, of my size and stature, would be just great for this thin airflow, right? Lemme translate it in terms you can probably understand -- it's kinda like flying in the burble -- very funky & very choppy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #23 April 8, 2003 Quote Quote So, then little ol' me, of my size and stature, would be just great for this thin airflow, right? Lemme translate it in terms you can probably understand -- it's kinda like flying in the burble -- very funky & very choppy. Yeah, I know... Just bustin your chops... I've been to the Las Vegas tunnel when I had about 30 jumps. They had the said burble which taught me how to stay afloat on the dome of it, plus how to arch.... Ya see, they put me in that lovely floppy suit of theirs, AND had to turn the power down to 60% before I could even get down to the grate! Even with my beautiful arch....(have the video around here somewhere if you really really want a laugh next weekend). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #24 April 8, 2003 Quote In Reply To I recommend you BRAND IN YOUR HEAD that you must 'pretend' to check your altitude every so often, ___________________ Why? You won't be increasing your altitude awareness any by doing that in a tunnel. I thought the advantage of learning in a tunnel was that you could pretty much put full concentration towards body postions and movements. Hi, Val. I think what the guy with the light sabre was meaning was how sucky would it be to end up with a cypress fire (or worse) because you had a 1/2 hour in the wind tunnel last week, and you were so intent on doing things that you forgot to check your alti when next you actually jumped from a plane, because you hadn't practiced that in the tunnel... It's a suggestion, and I think it's a good one for newbies learning during AFF or whatever. It cannot equate with real skydiving, but if you do like you would in a real jump, then it may be better for overall teaching. OTOH, as I've never been in a tunnel, I am not sure if you're allowed to wear gear like an alti in there. I know you can't wear your rig, but what about a wrist mounted alti? (Of course it wouldn't give you real alti...but still...)... I can't wait for Perris to get their tunnel up and running...I will for sure get some time. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #25 April 8, 2003 Quote The Portible one at WFFC had very experienced skydivers falling off the airflow when they would try to make some minor body changes. Unless its Skyventure or the VS1 design... I would'nt waste my time or money. The portible ones 99% of the time require a balloon suit to fly in too. OTH i saw video (i missed it) of people freeflying (2 ways even) and "tunnel surfing" in the portable that came to Eloy. Of course these were AZFF and AFI divers who are very very experienced, but it looked like a lot of fun. i want one to play with in my back yard____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
