alain 0 #26 April 8, 2003 maybe using a fake traning alti like this would help on time/altitude awareness, fur the students at least. http://www.dropzone.com/gear/Detailed/280.html alain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #27 April 8, 2003 Alain, that's an excellent thing to have around...and that's the kind of thing I meant! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakous 0 #28 April 8, 2003 Quote*** OTOH, as I've never been in a tunnel, I am not sure if you're allowed to wear gear like an alti in there. I know you can't wear your rig, but what about a wrist mounted alti? (Of course it wouldn't give you real alti...but still...)... *** It's is unlikely that you would be able to wear an alti, even if it was a fake one. The door guards are very meticlulous (and rightfully so) about reducing any chance of an object falling off and getting caught up in the fan blades. You are not even suppose to have anything in your jumpsuit inside pockets. They do a good job and will see it (even chapstick). Also, I don't see how having an altimeter would really help. Sure, you could look over, but it is imperative to register what the altitude is rather then just checking and seeing that it is there. It could actually just teach you a bad habit of looking and not reckonizing. The best comparasion to use would be the digital clock in the controllers window. You could actually reckonize how much time you have left in the tunnel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivinDon 0 #29 April 8, 2003 Quote It could actually just teach you a bad habit of looking and not reckonizing I had this problem which was self inflicted.The aff1 and 2 was this way I would look at it but not really register where I was.It took some practice and now I see what altitude I am at not the alti. itself if that makes any sence at allLater on Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #30 April 11, 2003 Quote . I know you can't wear your rig, You can't wear your rig but i saw a student of skydive U taking the Tunnel AFF course and they gave the student a dummy gear, looked like a real rig only thing is that it never opens its closed shut. I dunno if it was property of skydive U or if it was property of skyventure. The tunnel AFF student had to check his/her wrist as if he/she was looking at a altimeter and also had to practice the deployment sequence. It was kinda fun to see that she with 0 jumps could make better center turns than some skydiver that have some jumps HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #31 April 11, 2003 someone correct me if i'm wrong, but, as a rule, aren't the tunnels described as 'poor' or 'having a dome' tunnels with the fan in the bottom, while the 'better' tunnels are ones with the fan on top that creates a more realistic column of air? i was also wondering about having a dummy rig on in the tunnel. having a rig on definitely changes the way your body feels in a certain position vs. just wearing a suit, so why wouldn't they have you wear something that would simulate the feel of a harness?"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #32 April 11, 2003 Don- Permanent windtunnels such as Skyventure in Orlando or the one at Ft. Bragg (military) are great training tools to learn to fly your body. I see AFF students in there all the time working on their body position. With that being said: if you are in the middle of your AFF training, spend the money on your AFF. If you were going to be in Orlando before your next jump, then I'd say come see us at the tunnel. It's not NECESSARY for learning, but it is indeed a good tool. People just need to make the ABSOLUTE distinction between the two (skydiving and tunnel flying). I will never ever ever tell anyone that the tunnel is a good substitute for skydiving because they are two totally different creatures. :) If you are looking at spending X dollars on a portable windtunnel with the intent of improving your skydiving, then I wholeheartedly agree with Alison and say that you're wasting your money. If you just wanna go for the ride, have at it. :) Flying in the tunnel is FUN!! Regarding the differences among the tunnels: skyventure tunnels have 5 electric fans mounted at the top of the tunnel which lends it to cleaner air from wall to wall. there is very little "dead air space" around the "edge" of the column. Think venturi. There are air "straighteners" which help direct flow as it's being drawn into the tunnel. the Flyaway tunnels (LV and Pigeon Forge) have their fan located at the bottom of the tunnel, so air is forced thru the tube. Imagine the air "thinning out" along the edges of the column creating dead air space. You can "fall off" that column (hence the tuck and roll stuff). In MY opinion, the clientele reflect the effectiveness of the tunnel. When you have practically every world ranked skydiving team using a particular tunnel, that is a good indicator of the effectiveness of it. With the exception of the Golden Knights (they have their own tunnel) and a couple other teams, I see them all come to skyventure to train...and usually it's a combination of skydiving/tunnel training at that. hope this helps, arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #33 April 11, 2003 OTOH, as I've never been in a tunnel, I am not sure if you're allowed to wear gear like an alti in there. I know you can't wear your rig, but what about a wrist mounted alti? (Of course it wouldn't give you real alti...but still...)... *** Nope, sorry not allowed to wear anything that might come off. Even though there are screens in front of the big twirly things, the main concern is that something will come off and hit the fans.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #34 April 11, 2003 Quote OTOH, as I've never been in a tunnel, I am not sure if you're allowed to wear gear like an alti in there. I know you can't wear your rig, but what about a wrist mounted alti? (Of course it wouldn't give you real alti...but still...)... No you can't, but for the right fee, you can go in NAKED Just kidding __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #35 April 12, 2003 Tunnels work great if you subscribe to the whole-part-whole method of instruction. The method forces you to concentrate on one skill at a time, then after you mastered each individual skill, then you put them all together on a skydive. Wind tunnels are great for perfecting basic freefall skills, even if they are useless for teaching tracking or time awareness. Also there is no point to wearing a fake altimeter or fake rig until you are comfortable with basic body position. Even the crudest wind tunnel can teach you a few things. For example, in 1982 I visited the first wind tunnel in Quebec. Up to that point I suspected that I had a back-sliding problem, but had never jumped with a coach good enough to recognize it. Sure enough, my first minute in the tunnel saw me back-sliding into the wall repeatedly. My second minute saw me experimenting with different leg positions. By my third minute I was staying near the center of the tunnel. In conclusion, even the weakest tunnels can teach basic freefall skills. But do your self a favor and concentrate on basic skills in the tunnel. You will fly so much more gracefully if you are only thinking about one or two things at a time. Get into a wind tunnel and play around with body position, but leave all those silly time and altitude constrictions outside the tunnel where they belong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivinDon 0 #36 April 13, 2003 thanks to all who replied.I did see on a web site that the portable that is coming is not supposed to be a typical portable they say its a more solid column of air but its still getting bugs worked out I don't think it has even had a flier in there yet.I will wait and see what it is like before spending any cash on it and when it does get there I will update this post and let all of you know how it is. Later Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #37 April 13, 2003 Rob, you are DEAD ON regarding body flight and altitude "stuff." Wind tunnels do NOT teach altitude awareness. Wind tunnels do NOT teach canopy control. Wind tunnels do NOT teach common sense necessary to skydive. Wind tunnels DO give you the playground to help you learn precise body flight. If in doubt, ask the Norgies, Deland Majik, Airspeed, or any other world-ranked 4-way team. I know people that can fly their asses off in the tunnel, yet have never made a skydive. :) hope this helps, arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpgod 0 #38 April 16, 2003 ummm, if we're talking student training....despite the costs....there is no substitute for wind tunnel flying. i payed 100 bucks or so for the wind tunnel and pigeon forge TN and i blazed through AFF in 7 jumps. it's difficult to balance on the wind tunnel wind at first but if you have a "coach" there, you will learn alot. blue ones!!!! "dude, where's my main?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
