Slipping Through the Cracks? (coaching question)

[BikerBabe 0]

Well, I need some advice, and this seems to be the best place to put it.

As a soon-to-be USPA coach, I will become more responsible for the progression of students at our DZ toward their A-licenses.

My question concerns one of our students in particular. He was recently signed off to be able to JM himself, but still hasn't met all his A-requirements yet.

He has 135 jumps, still rents gear, but is at the DZ almost every weekend.

It's to the point that it seems like the instructors at the DZ just let him do his own thing, but I don't want him slipping through the cracks.

He has a very nervous personality, coupled with a bit of perfectionism, I think. I have a feeling that part of the reason he hasn't passed many of the requirements for his A is that he doesn't want anyone to see him try something until he thinks he has it down pat. So I think a lot of his 135 jumps have been "practicing" for the "real thing" (meaning when he has an instructor up there with him to sign off the requirements).

Obviously he is dedicated to the sport...he's been at it for a while, and he is always at the DZ helping out, etc. I really don't think it's a motivation problem.

We've tried to get him to relax, enjoy it, and not be afraid to make mistakes, but it's like hitting a wall.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to possibly break through to this student so he can relax a bit and not let imperfections get to him? Should I even bother trying? Has anyone seen/been in this situation before? I feel almost sad when I see him at the DZ all the time, and he still has to follow all the student rules.

I suppose it's always possible that he's perfectly content to stay this way forever, but I don't think so.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[AggieDave 6]

Do you think planning a 2-way with him, then going up there and being goofy would help him? Do something like fruit-loop him, give him a kiss pass or something. Just something to crack the ice a bit...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[BikerBabe 0]

I thought about that, but honestly, I think that would make him even more nervous, or angry with me if I didn't tell him beforehand. He's not the type to like surprises AT ALL.

You've met those people who are not the least bit spontaneous...he's one of those.

All. Must. Be. Planned. In. Advance.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Casch 0]

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I thought about that, but honestly, I think that would make him even more nervous, or angry with me if I didn't tell him beforehand. He's not the type to like surprises AT ALL.

You've met those people who are not the least bit spontaneous...he's one of those.

All. Must. Be. Planned. In. Advance.

Are you sure this guy skydives??? He doesn't sound like the type!

Seriously though, if he's a true perfectionist...chances are very good he will never change. You'll just have to let him take care of things on his own, even if it DOES take 500 jumps to get there, he'll have to get there on his own.

[riddler 0]

Coaching never used to be a requirement in skydiving. It used to be an informal thing where skydivers sought out other skydivers for help in accomplishing some goal. Most skydivers seem to do this naturally, but there will always be some that don't have any desire. I don't there's anything wrong with that, as long as those people are at least safety conscious.

My belief is that coaching was formalized and required for an A license specifically to make sure those few people don't slip between the cracks. There's no pressure for anyone to actually get an A license, but if he wants to jump at any other USPA DZ, they will likely not let him jump unless he has a checkout dive with an instructor. I don't think there's any reason to force someone to get a license, but he is really limiting himself by not doing it.

I wouldn't be concerned unless you see flagrant safety violations. Outside of that, each skydiver needs to find their own path.

[quade 4]

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He has 135 jumps, still rents gear, but is at the DZ almost every weekend.

Anybody that has 135 jumps and doesn't have his A license yet needs to be talked to.

No big whoop, but somebody nearby ought to find out what his real motivating factors are for being in the sport. I can think of a number of reasons why somebody might only want to either jump with himself or only with a coach at a single dz, but my guess is that it has little to do with perfectionism.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,995]

>Anybody that has 135 jumps and doesn't have his A license yet
>needs to be talked to.

>No big whoop, but somebody nearby ought to find out what his real
> motivating factors are for being in the sport.

I would sorta think the opposite. If all he wants to do are solos and practice jumps, why bother with the A? Getting licenses should not be a primary goal of skydiving; they're just a way to officially certify progress. If he does want to start doing RW but has problems passing the A, of course, that's a different story.

[quade 4]

Again, the only way to know for sure is to ask him.

You're right -- maybe getting licenses shouldn't be the goal of skydiving, but it sure does seem odd that all he wants to do are solos and coach jumps. That alone should send up some sort of red flag.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Clownburner 0]

Hang on a minute? Did you say he was recently signed off to be able to JM himself? Isn't that supposed to happen at AFF8 and not at 100+ jumps? Has he been going with instructors the whole time or what?

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Hooknswoop 19]

This is an unusual situation and unusual problems generally require unusual solutions. I would sit down with him and find out what his motivations are. Try to let him do all the talking. Make sure you do not interrupt, even if he is going off-topic. Some people jump to tell their friends they are a skydiver, some jump because they have never quit at anything and don't want to start now, even if they don't enjoy skydiving. It is possible, as strange as this may sound, that he jumped, found out what it took to get a license, made that his goal, intending to stop once he got his license, but discovered he really enjoys skydiving and doesn't want to stop. But he may feel he has promised himself, or someone else, he would stop once he got his license. Buying gear would "commit" him to jumping, right now he can quit anytime without gear to sell, etc. He may not even consciously realize how strange his situation is or that he is intentionally not committing to jumping by getting a license or buying gear.

I know people that hid every piece of skydiving gear whenever their parents visited. Reminds me of a bumper sticker, "Don't tell my parents I'm a pilot, they think I play a piano in a whorehouse".

Bottom line, talk to him, and get him to talk.

Hook

[fred 0]

I like all the above suggestions and insight into the possible psyche of this student...

I'm wondering, if it is a self-confidence issue (and yes, there are self-conscious skydivers), could you "help" him to make him feel more confident? I don't know what sort of jumps you're doing with him, but maybe he needs to feel like he can before he is able? If he's trying to dock, move slowly toward him at the same time. If he's trying to match fall rate, maybe you can see him arch hard and dearch just slightly to make it seem more effective?

Don't let him think he's an expert at it, but you can help him out a little to give him the confidence to think, "Man, this was so easy last jump, I know I can do this!"

Just some thoughts from an inexperienced, low-self-confidence jumper.

Also, make sure you follow the basic instructors guidelines: Comment on what he's doing well, and downplay what he's doing poorly.

Of course, in training I responded to the opposite reinforcement. I had an instructor who told me, "Wow, you really went to shit there! You need to relax, and never let that happen again." Perhaps the student is looking for actual instruction rather than 'good effort'? My instructor had me on the ground, practicing my arch, and saying, "Turn left. Okay. Good that's great." Then, a couple seconds later, I'd relax (it's hard to arch on a solid floor), at which point he'd say, "Did I tell you to relax? Arch!" It worked well for me... but my instructor had some subtlety to it that I'll never have.

[Samurai136 0]

What A-license skills is he still working on? If you find that he really is 'practicing' ask him, "What are you practicing for? Every jump you make is a real skydive."
Most skill improvement happens skydiving w/ others. Better yet, "What are you learning jumping on your own?"

On the other hand, he may be going straight to a D-license or C-license.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[wmw999 2,451]

If he's happy with his own progress, reasonably safe, and has money to rent gear, then letting him advance slowly may be the best answer. You might talk with whoever cleared him for jumpmastering himself -- it could be that he was just as nervous about spotting as he is about everything else. And skydiving, and advancing VERY slowly, might be his way of dealing with his own fears. If so, kudos to him.

But offer him coached jumps sometimes; do it when tensions are low to him, and offer it in a low-pressure "let's do a jump" way, rather than one that makes it easy to say no. Or maybe just happen to sit next to him periodically when he's drinking a coke or eating his lunch or something; be someone non-threatening and familiar first (I'm sure you're not threatening anyway -- this is about him, not you!). The familiar part is what will help. It's more time-consuming, but it might be the only way. He won't come to you, probably.

And good luck -- it's easy to let some people fall through the cracks, and it's good of you not to want to.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[freakydiver 0]

I've got 500+ jumps and only have my A. My goal is to be in the 400 way with my A!!

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Michele 1]

Hi, Andi...

Know what? I understand him. I didn't/don't skill-up very quickly. Mostly it's because I'm scared of trying new stuff, although recently that's been changing. But it took someone really extremely trustworthy to get me to try something totally new...I knew him for a while, and he always had a great word of encouragement for me. He and I jumped on a 4way early this year, but this new thing was really scary for me - a sit.... Anyway, long story short(er), there was a tight trust built up over the last 6-8 months, and it was comforting to know he was there in the sky with me laughing at me trying to do this sit thing...but it was the trust, the reassurance, and the borrowed confidence which I needed to get out there and try.

Maybe it's not just performance anxiety, which I get too. Maybe it's a fear that he will hurt someone else if he gets out of control. That's one of my big fears - hurting someone else.

Maybe it's fear of skydiving...it can be both compelling and terrifying, this skydiving thing. Maybe it's something no-one will ever know - unless they ask, and unless he knows and understands.

I had people telling me to NOT take the canopy class yet - I would "waste" my money, I would "waste" my time. But that one thing has given me more confidence than you would've expected. Yes, I still crash, yes I still get kerflumoxed in the air and screw a landing pattern...but it allowed me to move from a fear of flying the canopy and basically ignoring freefall because I was so scared of the canopy to at least an evenly distributed fear...

Maybe that's part of it for him, too.

Here's what has worked best for me. Until recently, I'd get the first jump of the day out of the way, doing a solo. And yes, it was "getting it out of the way". And only then will I *maybe* accept a jump with a trusted and known-skill-level friend. But only maybe. Not anymore, but this was as recent as 6 jumps ago.

Try doing a highpull tourist sunset jump with him, but spend some time with him first, on the ground. Chat with him when he's packing, talk about his canopy - what kind? Why choose it? Demoing? Etc...if he knows your his friend, and knows your skill level, and has had concerns about hurting anyone in the air, this might help.

Another thing to consider is he might be severely dyslexic, and not willing to take the written part of the test...I know the tests have changed, but does he?
It could be lots of reasons. But Andi, I have to echo Wendy's sentiment when she says Kudos for not allowing him to slip through the cracks. You're a good lady. And I get to jump with you on Friday!!!!!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[melissagsc 0]

Nice to know you are thinking of your student...since he still is a student. He just needs the right person...to tell him he should get his A...it's a new goal...make it a goal for him. Just like graduation ...If you incourage them from the beginning to go for all your A, B and your C and the reason why..MOST get the picture it benefits them to have these levels accomplished. Maybe give him a SIMS...

However, I know several people who just don't care if they get their A's or whatever...but they can't come jump with me...unless they are at least a USPA member. You never said if he is a current USPA member...

I would also want to do a 2way kiss pass fun jump too..but i'm a girl and we get away with things like that. Keep at it ...and remember it's only for his benefit!

Melissa Bennae
RB#854

[ManBird 0]

Pack him a mal. j/k.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[BlindBrick 0]

I fell through the cracks at my dz. I never really learned how to pack. I ended up going to rigging school and became a sr. rigger before I ever figured out how to pack a main. I then basically taught myself how. Coming from the rigger background though, it took me a lot of jumps before I was able to pack a snivel isntead of an instant opening.

I don't want anybody to have to go through something like that so I applaud you for making sure this guy doesn't fall through the cracks. Best of luck.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[allicat 0]

what's a kiss pass?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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what's a kiss pass?

Being kissed in freefall.

Sunshine gave me my first kiss pass at the Eloy holiday boogie this year.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[allicat 0]

sounds fun - I guess you'd need an open face helmet though.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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sounds fun - I guess you'd need an open face helmet though.

Yup, an open face sure would help.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rgoper 0]

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My question concerns one of our students in particular. He was recently signed off to be able to JM himself, but still hasn't met all his A-requirements yet.

which of his requirements on his "A" license card has he not met yet? i trained under the AFP Progression Program, i had met all of the criteria for my "A" before being cleared to "self jump master" this is a matter for the S&TA to be made aware of if it is a big concern to you, which it should be if your going for your USPA Coach rating.
Requirements For "A" License:
1) Persons holding a USPA A license "may" (not have to) pack their own main parachute, engadge in basic group jumps, perform water jumps, and must have:
a) completed 20 freefall jumps
b) completed all requirements listed on the USPA A License Proficiency card.

if someone let him "slip through the cracks" it happened during his student training, beings as he's already logged 135 jumps. Hook was dead on with his advice.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"