RSLs

[PhreeZone 20]

There should'nt have been anything for it to snag on. The RSL is flat against the rig, it does'nt matter how you open. What this sounds like is possibly too short of an RSL and when the main opened at an unusual angle it streched and pulled the reserve pin. A properly constructed RSL will allow strech in all directions plus has slack.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[lewis321 0]

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Wouldn't a good reply to the RSL question here since its been debated so many times be: Ask your instructor the pros and cons of having one and make an informed decision for yourself.

I have talked with my instructors about it, but wanted a few more opinions before trying to make a decision.

[lewis321 0]

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Main reason I practise chop then pull is that I don't want to be thinking "do I chop this, or just pull the reserve pad" when screaming through 2000 feet. If I can keep my drills the same, I will.

All the way through student training that was the norm, "chop and pull" for just that reason to not add any more confusion to a situation. There has been some discussion at our dz about pc in tow and the majority say cut it away and pull. That is what I have practiced and will stay with. Thanks

[lewis321 0]

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I thought everyone didn't

unfortunately some people feel the need for a security blanket in a sport where there is no TRUE security blanket....



it just doesn't make sense to me for that someone will not jump a rig just because it has no cypres....I just dont get it....

I am not saying I would never jump without one, but I have always jumped with one. The student gear had one and I bought my rig with one. If we are going to talk security blankets, how about that reserve on your back.

[indyz 1]

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If we are going to talk security blankets, how about that reserve on your back.

The average jumper will never have a Cypres fire. The average jumper is very likely to have a malfunction requiring a reserve ride at least once in his jumping career. How many people do you know who would be dead without a reserve, and how many people do you know who would be dead without a Cypres?

[sunman 0]

No RSL for me. Reasons why: I can pull my own handles. I don't want anything done for me. I don't want to deploy unstable. I'm confident in my altitude awareness that I won't sacrifice altitude for the sake of stability. If I smoke in after cutting away and not deploying my reserve in time, then it is not the lack of an RSL that kills me, it is my failure to get the reserve out in time. I do know a guy who would be dead if he had an RSL. He had a premature main deployment while doing close to 200 mph. It opened so fast that it broke the main riser on the RSL side. If he had an RSL, it would have deployed his reserve into his streaming main and he would most likely be dead. Of course, proper gear maintenance mght have prevented the premature deployment...

As far as PC in tow... What's that? I have a pull out.

Take my opinions for what they're worth (not much). You should do what you think is best for YOU, because YOU are the one jumping the gear.

[rhino 0]

I don't like RSL's either.. It should me mandentory for students..

I can pull my own handles.. I want to get the hell away from my main in the event of a cutaway. Also want to get stable if I am not already. Just never liked them. Nothing wrong with RSL's just not for me..

[DJL 235]

Edit: nevermind...will not succumb to trolls....

Hey folks, this guy is asking a serious question. Let's not fuck with him in this forum..

PEACE,

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

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if you're not doing this occassionally then you're not pushing the envelope

Not everyone wants to "push the envelope" though

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[DJL 235]

Nothing's funner that an 8-way wrestling match...don't know what you're talking about.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[lewis321 0]

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If we are going to talk security blankets, how about that reserve on your back.

The average jumper will never have a Cypres fire. The average jumper is very likely to have a malfunction requiring a reserve ride at least once in his jumping career. How many people do you know who would be dead without a reserve, and how many people do you know who would be dead without a Cypres?

I personally know one person with a cypres save, and several with reserve. If skydiving is about the averages and odds of a reserve ride either by aad or pull, I say why not try to stack the odds a little more in our favor.It's nice to know if I can't pull something will.

[hookitt 1]

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As far as PC in tow... What's that? I have a pull out.

Drop the handle for some reason, and lose enough time to reach it again. You have put SOMETHING out.

Now, pull the reserve and here is what happens. The Reserve come out of the container, Now there is no pressure at the divider wall so the main pin is now sitting in a loose closing loop. The reserve opens at terminal, and the weight of the handle pulls the pin and now the main container is open. (Personal experience)

Of course that won't happen each time but it has and it will again.
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RSL's and spinning Mals: There ya are you just found yourelf spinning and in Need to cut away, it is most probably thet you will be flung feet first away from the parachute and the Reserve pilot chute so you are technically not unstable. It's funny how many Mals I've seen with so called "unstable".... Deployments that just opened as advertised.

I don't use one and have no desire to. I can, hwever, easily argue for the use. Here is another just get it out story. For sake of keeping this short(er than it could be), A self induced radically spinning malfunction happend at a low altitude 2 weeks ago. She just said F*** it, and pulled both handles at the exact same time, and Covered her head due to disorientation and thinking that the ground was going to smite her.

It just opened as advertised as she flung away from the mess. It's on video, so it happened.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[USPA 0]

Don't start "can't" it's "won't" or "When I screw up"

I do most jumps with AAD btw, and all my camerajumps with AAD. The latter because I see way more situations with a camerajump in which I can screw up. (I don't expect too, but I see opportunities... )

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[USPA 0]

Are you a lazy packer? (no flame intended)

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[hookitt 1]

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Are you a lazy packer? (no flame intended)

I don't understand the reason for the question?

I'm an extremely good packer, and willing to show any one why I think that. :) Unfortunately that person would have to be in the same room

No flame taken, it's a good question. ???

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[USPA 0]

Well, cause I was wondering about the length of your closing loop, I must confess I'm not sure about my own, but I have see quite some rigs with the reserve open, main still closed. (pull-out, learn to pack damn-it!) where the pin still had alot of tension on it (enough to need a tuck to open the container).

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[hookitt 1]

My closing loop is very tight...

The rig I used was very tight untill the reserve was out. then it was much looser. That was not my rig.

LOL.. I know how to pack perhaps one day I'll make a useful video :) ...Nah.. I'm too lazy to do that. But I assure you, I know a bit about rigs and how they function. I'm always learning though.

PM me if you want to.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[fudd 0]

RSL: - Bought a used Vector II without one. I can pull my own handles (been there)... However, a RSL is more likely to save my life than kill me so I just got one installed.

PC in tow: Been there due to a misrouted bridle. I have seen all the debate and wonder how many people saying to just pull the reserve that has actually had one. With a PC in tow you burn altitude fast, and I would not recomend to analyze the situation. Act and act promptly.

My experience was: Dump....wait...!!!!!!! nothing happening!!!...started pulling handles. Look through the incidents forums for the full story.

AAD: Since some people have brought it up again in this thread here's my opinion:
As long as it's availble I see no reason not to have one. It costs about $100/year.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[rigging65 0]

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No RSL for me. Reasons why: I can pull my own handles. I don't want anything done for me. I don't want to deploy unstable. I'm confident in my altitude awareness that I won't sacrifice altitude for the sake of stability.

Sounds like what about 10 people a year would have said before they died from cutaway/low-pull or cutaway/no-pull.

There are no absolutes in life. But there are statistics that back up the use of RSLs as a positive thing. Show me statistics about the down side of using one and maybe I'll change my toon...Anyone?...Anyone?...

As for the post about the broken riser that "would" have caused a premature RSL fire: Where did the riser break? Even if it was at the grommet (which is pretty damn hard to do now on Super-Mini's) there are RSL kits that place the ring below the grommet so that it shouldn't be able to fire unless the entire risers clears.

Pretty tough to argue the numbers folks. You can say you don't like them, you can choose to jump without them, but you can't argue the fact that the numbers support the RSL as a positive life-saving device.

Does that make you dumb if you don't use one? No. But you should stand up for yourself and state that you understand the risks and choose to jump a statistically less safe rig. Can you do that?? Gut check time...how much do you believe in your convictions...?

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[billvon 2,991]

>I can pull my own handles.

Rick Horn teaches AFF JM's how to teach cutaways; he is the instructor's instructor, literally. He teaches that several times a year, and has played student (and critiqued how people teach emergency procedures) hundreds of times. He needed an RSL to pull his reserve when he couldn't find the handle during a mal a few years back. Will you honestly contend that you are more competent at emergency procedures than he is?

"I can pull my own handles" is a good thing to believe, but people who believe that nonetheless still die when they can't.

> I don't want to deploy unstable.

You should; reserve PC's can end up in your burble if you pull stable. The Racer manual actually says you should NOT deploy your reserve while perfectly stable. A head high position is preferable, which ironically is how an RSL deployment generally leaves you.

>I do know a guy who would be dead if he had an RSL . . .

And I know a guy who would have been dead if he'd been wearing his seat belt. Not wearing a seat belt is still somewhat foolish, but also still a personal choice.

>As far as PC in tow... What's that? I have a pull out.

It's when your bridle or a line from your canopy gets stuck in your closing loop or a grommet, or when your bag is too tight for your container, or your PC is damaged, or you forget to cock your PC. End effect is a PC in tow, even if you have a pullout.

[mikkey 0]

Interesting discussion (even if it has been discussed before) - I am currently waiting to get a new rig delivered and asked for the RSL "ready" option but no RSL installed. Reason being that I am paranoid about the idea of getting main and reserve entangled. Thought that the use of Cypres would help me if I can not pull my reserve handle (assuming I stick to plan of early decisions).
This discussion might change my mind especially with the new model coming out.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Push 0]

I heard something about a two-riser RSL that will not release unless both risers disengage. Is there any truth to that?

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[billvon 2,991]

>I heard something about a two-riser RSL that will not release unless
>both risers disengage. Is there any truth to that?

Not quite, but there is something very similar to that. The Collins lanyard will cause the "other" side of your risers to break away if the RSL side of the riser breaks. It effectively pulls your cutaway handle for you, very rapidly, helping to prevent an entanglement.

[skymedic 0]

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I am not saying I would never jump without one, but I have always jumped with one. The student gear had one and I bought my rig with one. If we are going to talk security blankets, how about that reserve on your back.

You misunderstood what I meant by a "security blanket". a reserve is not one either. there is no reserver presently made that can't malfunction. reserves fail also.

my point to this, is that all these devices are man made, and will fail. hopefully not when I or you are using it.

the problem is when people put all there faith into a device that "might" save you. and they wont jump with out this device that "might" save them....THAT is what I dont understand.

as far as me being a troll? I dont think I am...or the moderators would've spanked me by now....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Push 0]

It seems to me to be more of a risk management thing. If they feel that the risk of jumping without an AAD is unacceptable to them, I can respect that.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.