RSLs

[Push 0]

Could you describe how it works? Is it difficult to set up a rig for it? Maybe even statistics about it's effectiveness?

Thanks in advance.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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>I heard something about a two-riser RSL that will not release unless
>both risers disengage. Is there any truth to that?

Not quite, but there is something very similar to that. The Collins lanyard will cause the "other" side of your risers to break away if the RSL side of the riser breaks. It effectively pulls your cutaway handle for you, very rapidly, helping to prevent an entanglement.

There is the Parachutes de France version, the "LOR 2", that has two RSLs, two pins, and two closing loops on the reserve. The reserve wont open until both risers have been cut away, and thus both pins have been pulled.

[lewis321 0]

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I am not saying I would never jump without one, but I have always jumped with one. The student gear had one and I bought my rig with one. If we are going to talk security blankets, how about that reserve on your back.

You misunderstood what I meant by a "security blanket". a reserve is not one either. there is no reserver presently made that can't malfunction. reserves fail also.

my point to this, is that all these devices are man made, and will fail. hopefully not when I or you are using it.

the problem is when people put all there faith into a device that "might" save you. and they wont jump with out this device that "might" save them....THAT is what I dont understand.

as far as me being a troll? I dont think I am...or the moderators would've spanked me by now....

I see your point. I also agree with a lot of the opinions out there that we are, or should be proficient in our emergency procedures. PRACTICE_PRACTICE_PRACTICE!!!
I appreciate everyones input, even trolls if that 's what they think you are

[billbooth 10]

The new Skyhook RSL answers most all of your concerns about RSL use. You can find a description at relativeworkshop.com. (Someone please make it "clicky for me"

[wmw999 2,447]

Made to order:
Relative Workshop

Now all you have to do is copy and paste it for future reference...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,991]

>There is the Parachutes de France version, the "LOR 2", that has two
> RSLs, two pins, and two closing loops on the reserve. The reserve
> wont open until both risers have been cut away, and thus both pins
> have been pulled.

You're right, and there's also the Racer RSL which functions in a similar manner, though with a different theory (RSL to both risers.)

[billvon 2,991]

>Could you describe how it works?

It just has another loop off the RSL that pulls the other release cable as the first riser departs.

> Is it difficult to set up a rig for it? Maybe even statistics about it's
>effectiveness?

Not sure about those two. I believe Relative Workshop uses them on their tandems; perhaps give them a call?

[billbooth 10]

The Collins' Lanyard, which automatically and instantly releases the non-RSL riser, if the RSL riser releases by itself for any reason, has been standard on Vector and Sigma tandem systems for more than 3 years now. We have had several "saves" reported.

The Collins' lanyard is a necessary component in the new Skyhook RSL system.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

My friends Atom came with a collin's fitted. try asking PdF

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[dreamsville 0]

I know there has been a bunch written on this. At this drop zone (where I learned), jumpers just off student status were told they should have RSLs. At early levels of familiarity it's a good backup to be sure that the reserve gets out promptly before the AAD (they want that too) fires, although that may not adequately address the problem of a back-to-earth deployment.

Later on, with much more experience and higher performance canopies that have the tendency to maybe spin one on his back if things aren't well, one may want to disconnect the RSL. One example: cutaway with a spinning line twist that can't be kicked or barrel-rolled out of. Maybe you would want to cut away first (make the decision EARLY), spend the briefest possible time getting belly-to-earth, then deploy the reserve. I can speak from experience that it does work.
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[kallend 2,027]

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I know there has been a bunch written on this. At this drop zone (where I learned), jumpers just off student status were told they should have RSLs. At early levels of familiarity it's a good backup to be sure that the reserve gets out promptly before the AAD (they want that too) fires, although that may not adequately address the problem of a back-to-earth deployment.

Later on, with much more experience and higher performance canopies that have the tendency to maybe spin one on his back if things aren't well, one may want to disconnect the RSL. One example: cutaway with a spinning line twist that can't be kicked or barrel-rolled out of. Maybe you would want to cut away first (make the decision EARLY), spend the briefest possible time getting belly-to-earth, then deploy the reserve. I can speak from experience that it does work.
|

"Hairy Bob"'s experience last Summer indicated to me that even experienced jumpers with spinning malfunctions would do well to have an RSL. He was about 1/4 second from impact when his reserve opened.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dreamsville 0]

I had the exact same malfunction as he did. I just made the decision a lot earlier.

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[mikeat10500 12]

>...indicated to me that even experienced jumpers with spinning malfunctions would do well to have an RSL.


Thats how I see it!!!

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[mjosparky 4]

Lewis,
RSL's have without a doubt saved lives and will continue to do so. For several reasons I do not jump them but think are good for the sport.

I hope you never have one but if you do, stand straight up, reach over your head and grab the bridle. Pull in the pilot chute and pull your reserve.
Blue Skies!

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Kris 0]

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I hope you never have one but if you do, stand straight up, reach over your head and grab the bridle. Pull in the pilot chute and pull your reserve.

Umm, wouldn't that put it directly in the path of the reserve launch? Not to mention the fact that stunt is going to take a good chunk of time as well while increasing your freefall speed.

I do agree with you on RSL's though.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[robskydiv 0]

Mr. Booth, I like the skyhook idea. Could the industry be headed toward eliminating the spring loaded pilot chute? Just food for thought. Harry

[Jib 0]

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Mr. Booth, I like the skyhook idea. Could the industry be headed toward eliminating the spring loaded pilot chute? Just food for thought. Harry

Probably not, since the Skyhook doesn't work unless the main is out. Also, a Cypress needs a spring-loaded chute, since it only opens the reserve container.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[billbooth 10]

Jib is right. The Cypres put an end to any thoughts of a hand deployed reserve on sport systems. Actually, I originally designed the Vector to be a dual hand deployed rig, but got talked out of it. When I think back on it, I'm glad I didn't do it. When "stuff" really goes wrong, and you go into a panic, a ripcord is just simpler.

[billdo 0]

My opinions.

RSL - there are obviously a lot of people who would have been saved by an RSL, as they cutaway and pulled their reserve too low. I don't currently have one, but I have a cypress, which I feel provides SOME backup, in that if I cutaway with no RSL and can't find the reserve, the cypress would hopefully work. There are limitations to this as has been discussed previously, in that the cypress may not work in time in the case of a very low cutaway (one scenario where an RSL would be very nice to have).
I do sometimes wonder what's the difference between an RSL and just grabbing both handles and punching them out simultaneously?

Either way, I no longer go for the argument that an RSL is a bad idea because the RSL might deploy your reserve while you're "unstable". In most scenarios, the reserve PC would likely drogue you stable. Plus the idea of having to "get stable" is what results more often in low or no pull reserves.
(I have had two high speed spinning mals with no RSL. I understand the kind of instability we're talking about.)

PC in Tow - I would probably react by cutting away and pulling reserve. (I have heard of people who actually reached behind and pulled the bridle manually). One of the most frightening situations I can come up with is a PC in tow, you cut away, pull reserve and as the reserve comes out the main flies off and snaggs the reserve slider in the up position. I saw video of a freeflyer with a tube who deployed holding the tube and then let it go and snagged his main slider in the up position. So why be so scared of a two canopy out scenario? If you have a pc in tow and go straight to the reserve and the main opens, the likely configuration would be a stable two canopy scenario, and one could deal with that depending on the situation. (Too lengthy a topic to include here).

Pull out vs BOC - I have never jumped a pull out, but they seem in theory to be a safer design. However, 90 % of jumpers jump BOC and it is a very tried and tested design, and with modern gear in good shape PC in tow and horseshoes can be somewhat prevented by proper gear maintenance and packing (tight closing loops, cocked PC's in good shape, properly folded PC, etc).

Just my thoughts on a very controversial topic.

[rigging65 0]

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Pull out vs BOC - I have never jumped a pull out, but they seem in theory to be a safer design. However, 90 % of jumpers jump BOC and it is a very tried and tested design, and with modern gear in good shape PC in tow and horseshoes can be somewhat prevented by proper gear maintenance and packing (tight closing loops, cocked PC's in good shape, properly folded PC, etc).

Since a large percentage of people drive Automatic Transmissions, does that make it better and more "tried and true" than a Manual Tranni?

Skydiving Safety is often about stacking the odds, as best you can, in your favor. That's why we train and retrain and review again. You're right, new gear does help reduce malfunctions to a degree, but if one type of gear seemed intrinsically safer to you than another why wouldn't you use it? Just because the rest of the sheep don't take the time to investigate options, doesn't mean you shouldn't.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[mjosparky 4]

Kirs,
By standing up you reduce the area where the briddle can be from 6 ft. to the width of your shoulders. If you pull the briddle and pilot chute in, it should be out of the way. Or else just lay there and pull into it! What the hell no one lives forever.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals